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By neuroanimal
#34628
Which rhythms are tought or played in your country? Who knows them and can teach us?

From my side I can say only what I have seen live in my country or quite close to it and remembered to be played well:
  • abondan in Cracow & Rzeszów (by Wadada band)
    abondan in Głuchołazy (by Papadram band)
    bao in Warsaw (from workshop with Gaspard Conde)
    bara in Warsaw (from dance workshop with Facinet Andy Camara)
    bundiani in Cracow (tought by former Djabara band member)
    coucou in Warsaw (tought by Maxime Piazza)
    dallah in Stupava, Slovakia (I'm not sure)
    dennabo in Warsaw (from workshop with Sana Camara)
    djaa in Stupava, Slovakia (from workshop with Mamady Keita)
    djabara in Stupava, Slovakia (from workshop with Mamady Keita)
    djagbe in Stupava, Slovakia (from workshop with Mamady Keita)
    djagbe in Warsaw (from workshop with Kuba Pogorzelski, Malian style)
    djole in Cracow, Łódź (from drumming circle, and from dance workshop)
    doundoun kourah (from workshop with Sekou Camara)
    doundoungbe in Warsaw (from dance workshops)
    fankani in Cracow & Warsaw (from workshop with Garpard Conde)
    fankani in Stupava, Slovakia (from workshop with Mamady Keita)
    fe in Stupava, Slovakia (I'm not sure)
    fe or fefo in Łódź (only discussion with Babara Bangoura)
    gine fare in Warsaw (from dance workshop)
    kono oulen in Głuchołazy (from workshop with Tiriba band)
    kawa in Warsaw (I'm not sure)
    koredjouga in Łódź (from dance workshop, played by Gaspard Conde & Maxime Piazza)
    koudani in Łódź (from workshop with Sekou Keita)
    macourou in Cracow (from drumming circle, from dance workshop with Viola Wojciechowska)
    mamaya in Warsaw (I'm not sure)
    n'goron in Warsaw (presented by Kuba Pogorzelski)
    ouassoulounke in Łódź (from workshop with Adama Bilarou Dembele)
    saa in Stupava, Slovakia (I'm not sure)
    sabounouma in Łódź (from workshop with Babara Bangoura)
    salia in Rzeszów (by Wadada band)
    sene in Warsaw (I'm not sure)
    soko in Warsaw (from dance workshop with Viola Wojciechowska)
    soli in Warsaw (from dance workshop with Viola Wojciechowska)
    soli des manian in Warsaw (from workshop with Sana Camara)
    soli sankaran in Łódź & Warsaw (from workshop with Gaspard Conde)
    soliba in Łódź (from workshop with Gaspard Conde)
    soliba in Warsaw (from workshop with Sana Camara)
    sorsornet in Cracow (by 7th Chakram band)
    sounou in Warsaw (from dance workshop by Rhythm Zone)
    tama close to Zakopane (from dance workshop with Facinet Andy Camara, in Tatra mountains)
    tiriba in Jelenia Góra & Wrocław (by Tiriba band)
    tiriya or tirya in Łódź (from workshop with Babara Bangoura)
    yamama in Warsaw (from dance workshop)
    yankadi in Cracow (from drumming circle, from dance workshop with Viola Wojciechowska)
    yoki in Cracow & Warsaw (by West-African Project, including Mohamed Sylla & Daouda Camara)
    zaouli in Opole (tought by Ethnica Art)
Please share what did you remember as very nice from your area and who tech it :dance2:
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By michi
#34636
neuroanimal wrote:Which rhythms are tought or played in your country? Who knows them and can teach us?

sabounouma in Łódź (from workshop with Babara Bangoura)
salia in Rzeszów (by Wadada band)
Looking through your list, I recognised all of the rhythms (albeit with unfamiliar spelling) except for these two. Can you tell us more about those?

In general, I'd say that the list is pretty much "standard", in the sense that it includes rhythms that have been published widely. (Check out the WAP pages for a fairly comprehensive collection.)

I'm not sure whether the list of rhythms varies by country all that much. At least, I have learned most (if not all) of these rhythms at one point or another in Australia, or have been able to get access to those rhythms via CDs, DVDs, etc.

Cheers,

Michi.
By neuroanimal
#34679
Thanks Michi for the interest in the topic. When I speak about well played rhythms, I mean knowledge (by musicians) not only about basic djembé accompaniments, but also about doundoun accompaniments (with variations), breaks, intro/interchange/ending phrases, nice or traditional solo phrases, using swinging, game of hands (changing roles of the hands), game with gestures (pointing with finger, etc.), and good energy ("energy of memories", like going back to the place when this music originally was born, kind of trance). It is just about the choice of the repertoire. Nobody knows everything (except for the greatest masters) ;-)

Regarding the orthography, I use French-based transcription of the Maninka and Soussou names.
michi wrote: In general, I'd say that the list is pretty much "standard", in the sense that it includes rhythms that have been published widely. (Check out the WAP pages for a fairly comprehensive collection.)
The WAP pages are for me not the best source, as material presented on this service is not well documented in the sense of sources of various parts, date of the event on which they has been learned, context of the teaching, authentic cultural context, information about style used, variations usage, swing in patterns. But still Paul Nas'es collection and portal is very usefull.
michi wrote:I'm not sure whether the list of rhythms varies by country all that much. At least, I have learned most (if not all) of these rhythms at one point or another in Australia, or have been able to get access to those rhythms via CDs, DVDs, etc.
I heard that in Germany and Holland much doundounba rhythms are played, and with the authentic energy. So from my experience I must say: in Poland doundounba mania is not frequent, this is not main scope for the Polish musicians/fascinates I have ever met.

My goal in this topic is the exchange of the teachers and their ideas, so it would be good to know who teaches what and where, and which styles are practised by which environment. Some persons are interested in rhythms from Bamako area (sometimes including Soninke and Khassonke rhythms, or other Malian rhythms, like from Dogon or Touraegs), some from Hamanah/Gberedou or Ouassoulon area, another people are in Soussou/Baga/Nalou/Landouman rhythms, another in Forest/Ivorian/Burkinabe style. Many people mix cultures, learn sth from one culture, sth from another very different to previous one. I can understand this, as their teachers also are doing this. Personally I'm interested mostly in forest rhythms, but I learn different patterns too, as I don't know any other man in Poland with deep interest in this crazy repertoire (maybe Maxime Piazza likes this, as he created coucou-related band).
michi wrote:Looking through your list, I recognised all of the rhythms (albeit with unfamiliar spelling) except for these two. Can you tell us more about those?
Salia song was sung for Kelefa Sanneh (a nineteenth century warrior of the Gambia region) while he was traveling. It is in Kalefa Ba rhythm family. Bubudi told in this board, that it is sofa, but I'm not sure (however culturally it can be related to sofa rhythms played for the warriors). Translation of the song: "Saliya, where is Saliya? Friend of the jalolu, Saliya the merchant has lain down."
You can listen sample of it here: http://www.amazon.com/Salia/dp/B0060YHX32
Further discography: http://www.mandebala.net/discography/salya.php

Sabounouma ("Good star") is a rhythm played for person which was very good human for you, which did make something great for you, or which passed away, and you miss his/her brave heart. The rhythms itself is a combination of the ternary and binary patterns. I would say it's polymeter rhythm (meter in the meaning of the time signature). According to the Wikipedia article:
Polymeter is sometimes referred to as "tactus-preserving polymeter." The measure size differs, the beat is the same. Since the beat is the same, the various meters eventually agree. (Four measures of 7/4 = seven measures of 4/4).
Polyrhythm is sometimes referred to as "measure preserving polymeter,". The beat varies and the measure stays constant. For example, in a 4:3 polyrhythm, one part plays 4/4 while the other plays 3/4, but the 3/4 beats are stretched so that three beats of 3/4 are played in the same time as four beats of 4/4.
Most simple arrangement of the Sabounouma rhythm is as follows:
Code: Select all
|1yy2yy3yy4yy|
|---------f--| (12/8) played before call, f=slap flam
|1eie2eie3eie4eie|
|ttttt.t.t.t.t...| (16/8) djembé call

|1yy2yy3yy4yy|
|s-sstts-bstt| (12/8) 1st djembé accompaniment
|s-sstts--f--| (12/8) end of 1st djembé accompaniment

|1eie2eie3eie4eie|
|ttttt.t.t.t.t...| (16/8) djembé call

|1yy2yy3yy4yy|
|bs-bttt-tt-s| (12/8) part 1 of 2nd djembé accompaniment
|bs-bttsstts-| (12/8) part 2 of 2nd djembé accompaniment
|bs-bttt--f--| (12/8) end of 2nd djembé accompaniment

|1eie2eie3eie4eie|
|ttttt.t.t.t.t...| (16/8) djembé call
As the size of time measure (a bar) is constant, patterns can be written too:
Code: Select all
|x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--| 16/8 time signature
|t--t--t--t--t--.--t--.--t--.--t--.--t--.--.--.--| djembé call
|x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---| 12/8 time signature
|s---.---s---s---t---t---s---.---b---s---t---t---| 1st djembé accompaniment
|s---.---s---s---t---t---s---.---.---f---.---.---|  end of 1st djembé accompaniment
|x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--| 16/8 time signature
|t--t--t--t--t--.--t--.--t--.--t--.--t--.--.--.--| djembé call
|x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---| 12/8 time signature
|b---s---.---b---t---t---t---.---t---t---.---s---| 2nd djembé accompaniment (part 1)
|b---s---.---b---t---t---s---s---t---t---s---.---| 2nd djembé accompaniment (part 2)
|b---s---.---b---t---t---t---.---.---f---.---.---| end of 2nd djembé accompaniment
|x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--| 16/8 time signature
|t--t--t--t--t--.--t--.--t--.--t--.--t--.--.--.--| djembé call
So have you ever heard about Tiriya/Tirya/Tiria rhythm? Do not confuse it with Tiriba. It is very different. Do you know it?
By Paul
#34700
Yes this is interesting and can really reflect global drummer population movements.

Ireland is a very small djembe population with no resident African master drummer (or even vaguely good one).

For a long time it reflected what was happening in Britain. A lot of Sousou teachers who had moved to Gambia and then on to the UK.

Lots of Ballet/soussou rhythms -
Kuku, tiriba, sorsonnet, yankadi/macru, sinte etc..
I would say this still dominates the small dance scene here.

When I traveled to Mexico in 2004 everyone was playing Djole, though I had never heard of it. I would say there was a degree of influence form the US and TTM. Apart from that lots of yankadi/macru - sorsonnet.

One of the first people I knew who had been to Africa a lot had spent a lot of time in Burkina. He went there every year, so some people just tagged along due to their lack of french and the fact he had contacts. A lot of people here now play Burkina style calf skin drums because of this.

Things have changed in the past few years, Irish drummers have got a bit braver and stepped out of Gambia trips and organised guinea breaks to head to the villages.

Personally through work I recently went to Senegal where Drissa Kone from Mali was visiting for a month. As such i'm pushing the Malian rhythms now.
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By michi
#34702
neuroanimal wrote:I heard that in Germany and Holland much doundounba rhythms are played, and with the authentic energy. So from my experience I must say: in Poland doundounba mania is not frequent, this is not main scope for the Polish musicians/fascinates I have ever met.
In Australia, the dundunbas are probably the least-frequently played rhythms. I suspect that's because they also are generally considered to be among the most difficult…

Thanks for all your explanations for the rhythms, I appreciate it!
So have you ever heard about Tiriya/Tirya/Tiria rhythm? Do not confuse it with Tiriba. It is very different. Do you know it?
No, I've never heard of it!

Michi.
By bubudi
#34704
paul, i'm surprised that you never came across djole in gambia or ireland. the aku influence in banjul (from sierra leone) is responsible for djole masquerades still being frequent in banjul (as i've been told by three different gambians). i've also never met a senegalese drummer who didn't know the rhythm (often by the name 'assiko'). also, djole was/is still common conakry repertoire (its proximity to sierra leone would explain this, although susu people will usually pronounce it 'yole' because of the absence of 'j' in the susu language). there was a nice version of djole as the first track on a gambian djembe player's cd... trying to remember his name... he may well have been originally from conakry. i'm sure there's another reason why it wasn't played in ireland, just not seeing the connection to gambia or susu djembe players.
By bubudi
#34706
michi, the reason i attribute to dununbas not being done often in drum class is the same as in many western countries that don't take well to discipline. most people want to play djembe and have little desire to learn and practice dunun. lets face it, if you try and learn a dunun rhythm without truly feeling the dunun, you are going to flail. a room full of flailing students... not pretty! you may be able to wing it with other rhythms, but the handful of people here that can play dunun rhythms all can play the dunun parts and most have been to guinea.
By bubudi
#34707
neuroanimal, i definitely didn't say that salia is sofa. salia is not traditionally played on djembe and therefore many rhythms can accompany it.

as for your question, i am sure the answers will vary quite a bit with location. several of the rhythms in your list are not very common: saa, bara, dala, kudani, sabougnouma, n'goron, salia, tiriya, etc.

it really depends on the nationality of the teachers that your drum/dance community have been exposed to. the guinean influence is fairly ubiquitous, so i'll start there. add sinte, liberte and djelifoli/lamban to the list. our dancers like to do koreduga too.

as far as the malian repertoire goes: suku, dansa, maraka, sunu, ngri, djelifoli/sanja, woloso, madan, manjani, sogonikun, tansole are the most common.
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By michi
#34708
bubudi wrote:michi, the reason i attribute to dununbas not being done often in drum class is the same as in many western countries that don't take well to discipline. most people want to play djembe and have little desire to learn and practice dunun. lets face it, if you try and learn a dunun rhythm without truly feeling the dunun, you are going to flail. a room full of flailing students... not pretty! you may be able to wing it with other rhythms, but the handful of people here that can play dunun rhythms all can play the dunun parts and most have been to guinea.
Yes, I strongly agree with that. I quite often step back in class and basically say "OK, now you guys do it". That's because, while I'm playing with the students, they are all hanging off me and can easily correct their mistakes. When I stop playing with them, they are on their own. If they can play what I taught them without me, I know they got it.

But it's quite amazing to sometimes watch the entire group of djembes go out of sync with the dunun, completely oblivious to the fact that nothing fits together anymore. It's as if djembe players can listen only to themselves, instead of being connected to and directed by the dunun. But then, it's easy for me to rant because, not that many years ago, I was doing exactly the same. The dunun were just sort of this "background grumble" that somehow was there to "enhance" what the djembes were doing. The notion that all the djembes are meaningless without the dunun is something that didn't occur to me until later.

And I still regret not having played dunun for the first three years. I'd be a much stronger player now if I'd taken dunun seriously during that time.

Now take a dununba rhythm. Maybe a more complex one, such as Bolokonondo or Takosaba. It's not possible to play djembe to that unless I'm truly aware of and have internalised the dunun melody…

Michi.
By JSB
#34710
There are african drummers living in France, from Mali, Guinea, Senegal, Burkina Faso, Ivory Coast - the former french colonies - and then you may learn everything, but students are mainly interested in ballet style: fast, loud, crowded, arranged (it's my opinion), even if all is labeled as "traditional" (it seems that whatever you play, thinking that it's "traditional" adds something :) )
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By Dugafola
#34712
JSB wrote:There are african drummers living in France, from Mali, Guinea, Senegal, Burkina Faso, Ivory Coast - the former french colonies - and then you may learn everything, but students are mainly interested in ballet style: fast, loud, crowded, arranged (it's my opinion), even if all is labeled as "traditional" (it seems that whatever you play, thinking that it's "traditional" adds something :) )
same in the US. even in the area where I live, we have specialists in the hamanah, burkinabe, bamako, tambacounda, topalon and sankaran styles....not to even mention conakry and sabar drumming.