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Mamady's workshop in San Diego - Page 3 - Djembefola - Djembe Forum

User avatar
By Carl
#7606
Ok, maybe I'm hearing it wrong, but it looks like you guys are playing
flam: tone: flam: tone etc...

I'm playing
flam: tone: tone: flam: tone: tone

Am I understanding you correctly?

C
User avatar
By Dugafola
#7607
Carl wrote:Ok, maybe I'm hearing it wrong, but it looks like you guys are playing
flam: tone: flam: tone etc...

I'm playing
flam: tone: tone: flam: tone: tone

Am I understanding you correctly?

C
i think you're hearing it wrong. ;)
User avatar
By bops
#7608
If we're all talking about the same part of the lick (shown in Michi's video), then I think you're adding an extra tone in there, Carl.

The phrase has two parts - the first part repeats three times, and then there is the second part, the "turn around". The turn around is what we're talking about, right? It goes:

"ko bara ko bara ko ba" .... tone - flam - tone - flam - tone - slap

...and I would also say that the flams are not tight, but rather loose... gotta play it with feeling, you know?
User avatar
By Carl
#7609
Ok, now you guy's are killin' me...
michi@triodia.com wrote:It's played alternating, so the tones are played alternating on the left and right, and the flams also alternate right-left, and left-right.
This sounds like two tones between each flam, it sounds like duga and and bops have one tone between flams...
bops wrote:"ko bara ko bara ko ba" .... tone - flam - tone - flam - tone - slap
From what bops is saying, it sounds like triplets against the 4/4, but with a swing at the triplet level (instead of a swung 4/4) Ah, terminology fails again! :lol:

For the moment, I'm keeping my version 'cause it's hard. :twisted:

I'll wait for the real thing when I can get into a class/one-on-one.

Thanks for the feedback!

C
User avatar
By e2c
#7610
yeah... I think this is one of those times when you might have to set your jazz/etc. training off to one side, Carl. :)

It can really confuse the issue, imo. The only way I can describe this in words is that the whole phrase "has 'swing'" (balanço, which is Brazilian Portuguese), which is different from American 4/4 "swing" (although definitely related to it, in some ways). And that's not terribly helpful unless you already are familiar with balanço in Brazilian music, and... ;)
bops wrote:If we're all talking about the same part of the lick (shown in Michi's video), then I think you're adding an extra tone in there, Carl.

The phrase has two parts - the first part repeats three times, and then there is the second part, the "turn around". The turn around is what we're talking about, right? It goes:

"ko bara ko bara ko ba" .... tone - flam - tone - flam - tone - slap

...and I would also say that the flams are not tight, but rather loose... gotta play it with feeling, you know?
this is how I'm hearing it, too...
Last edited by e2c on Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By Carl
#7611
That is my biggest problem with writing about music. I can notate and or describe music 8 ways till sunday. People tend to think that it is how I think about the music. Actually it's not the case at all. But I haven't yet figured out how to upload a sound in my head to the board, so I'm reduced to music terms, vocalizations (written in text) and block notation...

It's also something I have trouble with in teaching sometimes... I don't let my students see any notation until they can play the part... Notation is a tool, like a tuning bar is a tool. I wouldn't use a tuning bar to "play" my djembe (though I might play music ON the tuning bar... but that's another post...)

C
User avatar
By e2c
#7612
I think talking about music in this way is hard, Carl.

Which is where syllabic patterns (like what bops is using) make more sense - to me, at least - than just about anything else.

(and it sure would be easier to talk about if we had a clip of someone playing the whole phrase cleanly, from start to finish.)
User avatar
By Carl
#7613
Ok, I'm really trying here... I can almost hear it the way you guy's are talking about... however going in that direction loses some of the swing for me... I really feel the 2 against 3 drive in this. I feel the 2:3 less when thinking flam:tone:flam:tone.....

Also, I'd like to hear it plaid by one person, with dununs or sangba only for clarity. so, who's making the video?
:mrgreen:

C

@e3c: Hey, I think I just caught you in an 'edit'.... :D (cross post jack...)
User avatar
By e2c
#7614
Can you hear it as a melodic phrase rather than thinking about the 2:3 thing? I mean, there are distinct pitches in *all* djembe accompaniments and solo phrases, not just in the duns... and they come together as melodies.

I find that works best for me - which is admittedly me, not you (necessarily). But if you can let go of the analysis and just hear it as melody, it might become much clearer to you.

Agreed on a cleanly-played clip of the whole thing.
@e3c: Hey, I think I just caught you in an 'edit'.... :D
You did indeed! :D
User avatar
By michi
#7615
The short version of the phrase is (where ss stands for a slap-flam):

TssTssTS

The long version is
TssTssTssTssTssTssTssTssTssTssTssTS

The handing is strictly alternating hands. No hand strikes twice in succession. If you play the first tone left (which is a pick-up tone, so the slap-flams all mark a pulse), then you play the slap-flam right-left. That means that the following tone is played right and the slap-flam after that is played left-right.

Mamady was adamant that this is the only possible handing. If you double up anywhere, you cannot play the phrase anymore when things get fast. ("Impossible" was the term used by Mamady.)

Cheers,

Michi.
Last edited by michi on Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By michi
#7616
End of day 4...

We finished the solos for Wassolonka today. Technically, all the phrases are easy to play, except possibly for the last one, which is a little harder. It includes four flams in the middle of a triplet sequence, where the first flam is s-t, the second one is t-t, the third one is t-s, and the last one is s-t. Not terribly hard technically. But all the solo phrases aren't that easy to play with the correct feel.

I'm learning more and more about feel... We recently had a long discussion about this. There are a number of people at the workshop who are "feel-deaf". Others pick it up immediately. More evidence for my theory that there is a genetic component to drumming. Someone promised to take me to task for that. (Not sure who it was now, but Carl seems to be ringing a bell... ;) )

The pyramid continued today with Fe 2. (I thought I heard Mamady saty on day 1 that the pyramid would be all Mamady's compositions but, obviously, I must have misheard.) This version of Fe is from a village near Balandugu. (Sorry, I forget the name now--will post once I find out.)

Learned a bunch more interesting phrases for the intro for Fe. Memory overload is becoming a serious issue for some people by now. Mamady really packs it in. The individual phrases are easy to remember and play (for me at least, for the most part), but the sequencing can get challenging. So far, I'm holding up well, better than most people here. But, at his current pace, things will get challenging toward the end of week 2.

Tomorrow, he'll start another new rhythm with the advanced group. Looks like we are shaping up at one rhythm every two days in the morning, including lengthy solos. Plus the pyramid, which will grow to five rhythms with lengthy intros and complex breaks. Plus the rhythms he teaches to the intermediate class, which I'm sitting in on occasionally. So far, he has done Djagbe and Sofa with the intermediates. Fortunately, I learned both of these from Mamady previously, so I could give my brain a bit of a rest...

But, if you go to his camp and you haven't learned any of the rhythms before, you can potentially walk away with:
  • 5 rhythms for the pyramid, plus a lengthy intro for each, as well as breaks in the middle of each rhythm
  • 5 intermediate rhythms, complete with solo
  • 5 advanced rhythms, complete with solo
Not bad for two weeks...

Cheers,

Michi.
User avatar
By Carl
#7625
e2c wrote:Can you hear it as a melodic phrase rather than thinking about the 2:3 thing? I mean, there are distinct pitches in *all* djembe accompaniments and solo phrases, not just in the duns... and they come together as melodies.
the term "2:3" represents the melody in my head, it's just the words I use to describe it.

After reading Michi's description, I'm a little sad, because that is easier than what I thought it was. the flam/tone alternation even with the swing is easier for me because there is one less hit to work into the mix. the handing "reads" a little strange, but I'll have to sit down and try it out at a drum (I'd hand it: r rl l lr etc, starting on whichever hand would make it "end" correctly) But then again, I haven't actually been taught the technique, so there is probably something in there that I'm doing differently to make things "work out" to my own personal bias...

More fun stuff to look forward to!

@michi - I expect a nice clean video example performed by YOU within a week of your getting back! 8)

C
User avatar
By michi
#7629
Carl wrote:I'd hand it: r rl l lr etc, starting on whichever hand would make it "end" correctly
Be careful, that's not how it's supposed to be played. The handing Mamady says you have to use is r lr l rl and so on.
@michi - I expect a nice clean video example performed by YOU within a week of your getting back! 8)
Harsh task master... ;)

Seeing that bops just posted a clip of Mamady playing the phrase, I think I won't try and compete :)

Cheers,

Michi.
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