Discuss traditional rhythms, singing etc
By bubudi
#11429
Dugafola wrote:even parts of bundiani have dununba kenkeni...
huh? what do you mean by that?
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By Dugafola
#11430
sometimes in a bundiani fete the dununba kenkeni is used.
By michel weelen
#11438
@ Afoba ...
You're right .... What i meant is that every village got his own version off the rythm, and some time as you said, few version ... but some are played so localy ... How can we dream to know them all, even the guinean drummers don't know them all .... useless ....
I've been to Baro and "la fête de la mare" and saw the Dudumbas played there ... the guys just played 2 or 3 rythms all day long .....
My point is : appart from an ethnomusical job, wich means going to every village & collecting every single peace off music & then go back again a few years later to witness the changes & evolution, a living musician would not be able to know all ... and i'm not sur it means something .... but that's my point off vue ....

Cheers 8) 8) 8)
By bubudi
#11441
Dugafola wrote:sometimes in a bundiani fete the dununba kenkeni is used.
for the main ternary mendiani/bundiani rhythm? in what villages does this happen?
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By michi
#11442
I asked Mamady about this last October and his estimate was that there are around 30 different dundunbas (not counting minor variations). I told him that I'd read that there are 50-60. (Unfortunately, I can no longer remember the source--it may have been Eric Charry.) His reaction was somewhat dubious. He didn't contradict it outright, but his body and facial language indicated that he was a little skeptical as to that number.

He also explained that dundunbas are in a constant state of flux and that each village adds its own embellishments, and that people are continuously inventing new ones. So, I guess his figure of 30 would refer to "traditional" dundunbas that have been around for a long time, and doesn't count the ones that have sprung up in the last few decades.

Cheers,

Michi.
By bubudi
#11443
Dugafola wrote:i witnessed a soli fete for the bilakoro in the village of Mandoukoro which is near Faranah in Sankaran...koumanko territory. there was no soko or kala played at all.
my understanding of soko is it's played more in the weeks leading to the soli, rather than the soli itself. usually in the kelalasi fete i described earlier.
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By michi
#11446
Mamady says that Soko is played once the elders have decided on the date of the initiation ceremony. In the weeks leading up to the ceremony, the to-be-initiated boys are sent around neighbouring villages to spread the word about the ceremony. They often are invited to stay overnight. Soko is played to welcome the boys when they arrive in the village.

Once the children return home, Soli is played in the weeks leading up to the circumcision, though not every night. In the week before the circumcision, Soli is played every day and, the night before, Soli is played from the evening prayer until six o'clock the following morning. Thereafter, you will not hear any more Soli until the next circumcision.

Cheers,

Michi.
By bubudi
#11448
michi wrote:In the weeks leading up to the ceremony, the to-be-initiated boys are sent around neighbouring villages to spread the word about the ceremony. They often are invited to stay overnight. Soko is played to welcome the boys when they arrive in the village.
yes, that tour of the soon to be initiated is called kelalasi.
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By michi
#11449
bubudi wrote:yes, that tour of the soon to be initiated is called kelalasi.
Thanks for that! I was't aware of this.

Cheers,

Michi.
By Daniel Preissler
#11450
Hello again Bubudi,
bubudi wrote: it's easy to misinterpret our words in this text medium.
very true!
i personally asked famoudou about this via thomas goldhahn a few years back. my reason was that he was not using the basatinbaraba call on this piece on his cd. famoudou's response was that damba is definitely a dunun (dununba) rhythm.
that doesn't change my mind. First it depends on how you ask, then where, then who, then how many people are around etc. Then it's possible that Famoudou refers to the rhythm on Mamady's disc, which is recorded as a dundunba, even if there is no traditional one of this kind.
I think we have to leave it that way, you believe in this rhythm as a traditional one, I don't.

but some dunun rhythms are played outside the dununba fete. did you attend any soli fetes in hamana or gberedu?
Soli yes. What rhythms do you think of? For me, dundunbas are rhythms played for dundunba fêtes, there are some special ones, like sankaranba or kudabadon and some rare exceptions.

are you able to correspond by email with any of your teachers?
I will see, but there's is only one of my teachers who has ever used a computer.

Greetings, Daniel
By Daniel Preissler
#11451
Hi Michel!
michel weelen wrote:@ Afoba ...
You're right .... What i meant is that every village got his own version off the rythm, and some time as you said, few version ... but some are played so localy ... How can we dream to know them all, even the guinean drummers don't know them all .... useless ....
I've been to Baro and "la fête de la mare" and saw the Dudumbas played there ... the guys just played 2 or 3 rythms all day long .....
My point is : appart from an ethnomusical job, wich means going to every village & collecting every single peace off music & then go back again a few years later to witness the changes & evolution, a living musician would not be able to know all ... and i'm not sur it means something .... but that's my point off vue ....
Cheers 8) 8) 8)
Yes, it's true, it will never come to an end and there is no guinean drummer who knows all the rhythms played (probably not even in one region).
But I find it interesting to see the differences between villages, to see where they play one rhythm for dyaa, while it's a dundunba rhythm 5 km away etc.

Concerning the "dundunba" kensedeni on gbundiani: I saw it in Babila/Fissadou this year, still I prefer the down beat version.
In some villages there are tendencies to play every (or a lot) kensedeni in the dundunba version, that is down beat elsewhere (Baro, Fissadou).

Greets
By Daniel Preissler
#11452
My experience with Soli:
there can be some dianzamalo before and (more often) after the soli fête. But sökö is'nt played there. In general the whole customs weeks before (and after) the fête itself are getting lost maybe not everywhere, but I think so). All the stuff like going to the bush being educated in a traditional way, that we still know from Laye Camara's "enfant noir" isn't there anymore.
The day of Soli (the first of the 2 days, depends on how you see it), they can start playing in the early aftrenoon. There is a break in the evening for praying, than it can go on the whole night long (solimasi, solisi).
If there are only a few boys, it can be done just in the afternoon. Some circumcisions are done without any fête nowadays (depends on the family's money and motivation).
Greetings again from
Daniel
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By Dugafola
#11455
bubudi wrote:
Dugafola wrote:sometimes in a bundiani fete the dununba kenkeni is used.
for the main ternary mendiani/bundiani rhythm? in what villages does this happen?
it just happens man. kenkeni will just start pounding it out. Not sure what village...maybe Kourala. it was near Baro though right after the sacred forest fete.
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By Dugafola
#11457
bubudi wrote:
Dugafola wrote:i witnessed a soli fete for the bilakoro in the village of Mandoukoro which is near Faranah in Sankaran...koumanko territory. there was no soko or kala played at all.
my understanding of soko is it's played more in the weeks leading to the soli, rather than the soli itself. usually in the kelalasi fete i described earlier.
see daniel's post below.
Afoba wrote:My experience with Soli:
there can be some dianzamalo before and (more often) after the soli fête. But sökö is'nt played there. In general the whole customs weeks before (and after) the fête itself are getting lost maybe not everywhere, but I think so). All the stuff like going to the bush being educated in a traditional way, that we still know from Laye Camara's "enfant noir" isn't there anymore.
The day of Soli (the first of the 2 days, depends on how you see it), they can start playing in the early aftrenoon. There is a break in the evening for praying, than it can go on the whole night long (solimasi, solisi).
If there are only a few boys, it can be done just in the afternoon. Some circumcisions are done without any fête nowadays (depends on the family's money and motivation).
Greetings again from
Daniel
that's exactly what i experienced. instead of the weeks on tour from village to village, it is now just a couple of days. in the village i was in, it started 3 days before...that's it. i asked a village elder, sekou conde-great dancer btw, about it and he said it's gotten shorter and shorter over time. Bolokada confirmed this.

there were maybe 20-25 boys that were to be circumcised. i have some footage. add it to the list of stuff i'm supposed to post on this forum.
By Daniel Preissler
#11460
thanx for the confirmation concerning soli, Josh.

concerning "mendiani": to be clear, I'm talking about the second ternary rhythm, I forgot to write this above.
Dugafola wrote:
it just happens man. kenkeni will just start pounding it out. Not sure what village...maybe Kourala. it was near Baro though right after the sacred forest fete.
Might be Koumana, Babila, Fissadou...
They are nearer to Baro and the Koumana/Babila dalamo is just one week after the one in Baro (Kourala: 2 weeks). In Koumana, they sometime play 2 kensedenis (down beat and dundunba kensedeni for nearly everything), for Nundiarra has got two apprentis. 2008 (my first and only dalamo til this year) there was a Babila guy who lives in CKY coming home for the fête - along with whom came some CKY kids playing more or less ballet and CKY fête style for the dundunba and the kawa (so I went straight on to Koumana). There kensedeni föla played 2 kensedenis in dundun ballet style, so he could mix the two kensedeni parts, too (I saw it for dundunba).

Good evening
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