Discuss traditional rhythms, singing etc
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By michi
#36029
Well, I could equally well say that Yankadi is a strongly swung 12/8, just swung in the other direction :)

When I listen to Mamady's binary call for Yankadi, I always struggle a little, simply because the feel that follows is so different from what the call suggests. I guess you could swing the binary call the same way as the rhythm, pushing it much more towards 12/8, and it would sound more natural. I can equally well play a Djaa/Soko call (biribi-dibi-dibi-di) for Yankadi. That feels a little more natural to me because it's played at normal speed, rather than at the half speed of the binary call. But then, the feel still isn't quite right either because it misses the binary feel.

In the end, I don't think it matters. It's just the "Yankadi feel", period. Listen and play, rather than getting totally obsessed with notation that can never completely capture the real thing anyway…

Cheers,

Michi.
User avatar
By djembefeeling
#36030
Some interesting or just funny and curious things I found on my journey are left to mention.

One is that I found two independent sources where the Malian rhythm Madan is called Yankadi. The one source is a CD by Mamoutou Koné called Konmonfoli, where his track N°2 is called Yankadi, but is Madan. Another source is a private video from Mali with the title Yankadi, even though it is obviously the Madan that is played.

I do have no clue how this comes about. With some grain of salt you can say that there is some remote resemblance in the structure of MKs first half of the cycle with Madan. I did adapt some sound so as to make it more obvious:
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but this is probably not the reason for sometimes calling Madan Yankadi, I guess.


One percussion studion file was curious because it was rather a Latin American interpretation of Yankadi:
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For two different examples of Yankadi in poular music listen to Sidiki Camara. On his album Ayou Wele, he has a nice afro pop version of Yankadi, on his new album Tolerance he has that flavored with some jazz elements:

http://www.amazon.de/Yankadi/dp/B004QA8 ... iki+camara


Last, but not least, have some fun with these crazy motor mechanics from the Netherlands totally inspired by MKs Yankadi. Somehow, I would love to see them at work but wouldn't trust them with my own car:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-C1q69xIco[/video]
User avatar
By djembefeeling
#36031
michi wrote:I can equally well play a Djaa/Soko call (biribi-dibi-dibi-di) for Yankadi. That feels a little more natural to me...
That would feel very strange to me. Its just the other 12/8 family, the opposite swing.
michi wrote:In the end, I don't think it matters. It's just the "Yankadi feel", period.
After what I did outline it should be clear there is no one or "the" Yankadi feel. There are many different variants out there.
michi wrote:Listen and play, rather than getting totally obsessed with notation that can never completely capture the real thing anyway…
As with every rhythm. But there are easy and complicated ways to notate. And notation can help your understanding, as does listening and performing. Uschi Billmeiers notation had quite some impact. The choice of a notation system influences the understanding, as your choice of whom you listen to will determine how you will feel Yankadi.
User avatar
By michi
#36032
djembefeeling wrote:That would feel very strange to me. Its just the other 12/8 family, the opposite swing.
Well, I mentioned that because it's possible to play that call "much straighter", with a swing that's close to binary, and then it works quite well for Yankadi.
As with every rhythm. But there are easy and complicated ways to notate. And notation can help your understanding, as does listening and performing. Uschi Billmeiers notation had quite some impact. The choice of a notation system influences the understanding, as your choice of whom you listen to will determine how you will feel Yankadi.
Sure, and I didn't mean to criticise! It's just that, for Yankadi, the distinction between binary and ternary seems almost arbitrary because it's neither so, no matter which notation I select, it'll always be "wrong". That's not to suggest that notation isn't useful. If I already know the feel of Yankadi, I can learn new phrases from notation and play them with the correct feel. But, if I don't know Yankadi, if all I have is notation, I'll almost certainly play it with the wrong feel.

Cheers,

Michi.
User avatar
By korman
#36981
Once again, hats off to djembefeeling for this thorough compilation and analysis!

Just a quick question - did you analyse the makru in the same way as well?
From the few sources that I've seen (MK's Nankama, Kalani-RyanCamara book, Sylvia Franke book), it seems to me that:
1) makru is straight binary (no swing like in some upper-guinea binary rhythms)
2) speed is fast (140bmp and more)
3) solo phrasing is usually leading to and reinforcing the beat
4) dunun vary, but the D--DD---D-D-D--- dunun pattern is the one most often played, one of the parts emphasises the off-beat as well
Would you agree to that?

By the way, in his book MK lists different bell patterns for each of the three dunun, but in the album only one bell is played, a single offbeat that is not even in the book:)

p.s.
regarding Yankadi, I tend to view it as swung binary, maybe because I first learned it from Mamady's book with its binary notation, and I use the binary handing on the basic pattern.
I once made a percussion studio file with 58/42 swing and it sounded quite nice, but I could not get the group to play it, we slid back to 66/33 quite quickly.
User avatar
By djembefeeling
#36983
No, I did only do with makuru what I said on this thread. Regarding the swing, both rhythm seem to be at the polar ends of the continuum. Yankadi with maximum swing, makuru with minimum. But understand that your points one and two are almost Siamese twins - the faster you play a rhythm, the less you tend to swing. There are of course exceptions to the rule...

Solophrases tend to support the beat perhaps just because all the examples you mentioned are productions for the workshop market. Try to play fadenya phrases on such a quick rhythm with your students :shock:

For the dunun, lots of variations would be possible, but again with the crazy speed that is already very competitive you usually do not need more fadenya...

Thanks for the encouragement, by the way :)
User avatar
By korman
#36988
djembefeeling wrote:the faster you play a rhythm, the less you tend to swing.
It need not be so - as Polak showed in his "Rhythmic feel as meter", Drissa Kone quartet maintained the swing while almost doubling the tempo. Maybe this is where Bamako and Conakry differ, I am yet too inexperienced to tell...
djembefeeling wrote:Thanks for the encouragement, by the way :)
Yeah, it's great what you do! Not everyone has the ability and patience to analyse and transcribe rhythms.
I am still quite slow with this, for example last year I tried to transcribe Yole solo from Abdoulaye Camara's dance dvd (because dancers I sometimes play with use his choreography) and in the end I only took the repeating phrases and breaks and gave up on analysing every nuance.

However today I had a free evening by myself, and I analysed the MK's training CD. It has a track with solo only, without the sequenced accompaniments, so it's very easy to see in wave editor (I used audacity). He plays a solo accompaniment tt-sbtt-b-s-btt- between solo phrases.
So I labeled 8 instances of this pattern (before each new solo phrase and before the ending break), exported the labels to excel, measured the beat length, and length of spaces between notes.
This is what I get
MK_yankadi_solo_accompaniment.jpg
MK_yankadi_solo_accompaniment.jpg (52.91 KiB) Viewed 1894 times
Interestingly, the two tones after beat 2 are exactly binary, whereas the tone after beats 1 and 4 is delayed. 29% for the first tone after the beat would be exactly in between binary (25%) and ternary (33%), yet he places it on average at 27%-28%. So his accompaniment part is closer to binary than ternary.

It might be a consequence of playing to the too-straight sequenced backing track, but I doubt it, because he had 30+ years of experience at the time of recording, so the feel must have been deeply ingrained. It would be interesting to have live-played multi-track master, because in the dununba part we could see exactly what the swing is.

However, the solo phrases (which I don't have time to analyse now) seem straight ternary, for example solo phrase 6 is a visibly straight ternary grid, but due to the alternating pairs of tones and slaps could be perceived as a 33% faster binary rhythm.
User avatar
By djembefeeling
#36992
korman wrote:It need not be so - as Polak showed in his "Rhythmic feel as meter", Drissa Kone quartet maintained the swing while almost doubling the tempo. Maybe this is where Bamako and Conakry differ, I am yet too inexperienced to tell...
Yes, on Mandiani and the like. That's what I also had in mind when I said "tend to". As far as I can tell it wouldn't be that different in Guinea, but different in binary rhythm like Makuru.
korman wrote:It might be a consequence of playing to the too-straight sequenced backing track, but I doubt it, because he had 30+ years of experience at the time of recording, so the feel must have been deeply ingrained.
Could be, does not need to be. I think Mamady would have played along the track and adapts to the feel as every good musician would... almost binary accompaniment with straight ternary soloing, how does that work together?
User avatar
By korman
#36994
djembefeeling wrote:almost binary accompaniment with straight ternary soloing, how does that work together?
Playing triplets over binary groove is quite common soloing technique, isn't it?
User avatar
By korman
#37247
djembefeeling wrote:No, I did only do with makuru what I said on this thread.
In order to rectify shortage of analysis on makru, I have tried to transcribe the makru part of the file that djembefeeling transcribed Yankadi part of. Is anyone willing to have a look for errors?? It started out pretty straight, but towards the end there were some tricky parts.
Last edited by korman on Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By korman
#37251
thank you for corrections, I'll upload a corrected file in a few days
41-42 - I did not really notate the accents, there is a > symbol in yankadi font for that, maybe I 'll use it and see how readable it is!

107-108 - thanks, I see I have ommited one slap! but do you mean the slap right after beats 1 and 3 is closer than 1/4th of a beat?

113-115 - I chose to notate it this way, because looking at the waveform to me it seems that the first tone in the group of 3 tones at the end of 113 is before the middle of the beat

In yankadi font there is only 1/4th (a sixteenth note), 1/6th (16th note triplet) and 1/8th (a 32th note) division of beat, in percussion studio you can go one more layer deeper, but I did not have time to recreate it in PS as well (I am using the sheet as a guide for practicing the phrases while looping the audio).
User avatar
By Gumbe_2013
#37252
korman wrote:thank you for corrections, I'll upload a corrected file in a few days
41-42 - I did not really notate the accents, there is a > symbol in yankadi font for that, maybe I 'll use it and see how readable it is!
OK
107-108 - thanks, I see I have ommited one slap! but do you mean the slap right after beats 1 and 3 is closer than 1/4th of a beat?
Yes, I do. Check out the attached File : Makru-107-108.jpg
Makru-107-108.jpg
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113-115 - I chose to notate it this way, because looking at the waveform to me it seems that the first tone in the group of 3 tones at the end of 113 is before the middle of the beat

In yankadi font there is only 1/4th (a sixteenth note), 1/6th (16th note triplet) and 1/8th (a 32th note) division of beat, in percussion studio you can go one more layer deeper, but I did not have time to recreate it in PS as well (I am using the sheet as a guide for practicing the phrases while looping the audio).
I`ve found another fault in your transcription. IMHO you ommited a slap again at 39-40.
Check out the PDF-File again.

Greetings
Attachments
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User avatar
By korman
#37267
Thanks for corrections! I have now uploaded updated file.

Actually I noticed that on DVD chapter with dance instruction the soundtrack is different, he does not play note-for-note what is on audio CD (although some phrases are the same).
I was actually interested to see how djembe solo lines up with dance movements, so I should have analysed the DVD soundtrack:(
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