Discuss traditional rhythms, singing etc
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By e2c
#11461
bubudi wrote:i have never heard them called 'topanoes'.

i do know that dr. djobi teaches a particular slap that we discussed in another thread, which he calls 'topalo'. the sound is in between a slap and a tone and it's a very distinctive sound, with some overtones to it. the topalo sound is central to a number of rhythms of the gouro people in the ivory coast (e.g. zaouli). some others that play that sound well include mamady keita, famoudou konate, nansady keita, thomas guei, petit adama diarra, mohamed diaby, mahiri edwards-keita and fode bangoura.
Could you point us (me) in the direction of some of those recordings so that it's possible to get a sense of this sound and how these guys use it and/or interpret it?

I'd like to learn more, but that's kinda hard without specific references.

thanks in advance for your help! :)
By bubudi
#11480
there are several youtube videos in the other thread i linked to. also, many ivory coast players use it, so check your ivory coast recordings. i definitely noticed it with boka on one of the breaks on the zaouli track of sibo bangoura's cd, mamady halfway through the dunungbe on his hamanah disc (plus on plenty of his other discs). i can't remember any other specific tracks off hand but i'll try and come up with examples from recordings as i come across them and post them in the other thread.

carl was talking in another thread about an ivory coast heel-tip bass technique that he was using for the trad solo for soboninkun, and i think it would be very appropriate on kuku or kuku maoka.

while we're at it, is anyone interested in discussing the parts to kuku and/or kuku maoka (both trad and modern)?
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By michi
#11481
bubudi wrote:carl was talking in another thread about an ivory coast heel-tip bass technique that he was using for the trad solo for soboninkun, and i think it would be very appropriate on kuku or kuku maoka.
If you listen to Mamady's Djembe Rhythms No. 11 (Soboninkun) and No. 12 (Wassolonka), you can hear the heal-toe technique for the basses. He uses the same heel-toe technique for the basses on No 7 (Kuku).
while we're at it, is anyone interested in discussing the parts to kuku and/or kuku maoka (both trad and modern)?
Sure, why not? Mamady taught Kuku Des Maoka at San Diego, so I feel that I'm on firm ground here :-)

Cheers,

Michi.
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By michi
#11484
Dugafola wrote:
bubudi wrote:i do know that dr. djobi teaches a particular slap that we discussed in another thread, which he calls 'topalo'. [...] some others that play that sound well include mamady keita, famoudou konate, nansady keita, thomas guei, petit adama diarra, mohamed diaby, mahiri edwards-keita and fode bangoura.
can you reference a recording in which FK uses this technique? ttrack number and min/sec please if you can.
There is a good a example of Famoudou using that technique on "Rhythmen der Malinke", Sofa (track 17), starting at 2:15. He gets three different pitches of slaps.
e2c wrote:Could you point us (me) in the direction of some of those recordings so that it's possible to get a sense of this sound and how these guys use it and/or interpret it?

I'd like to learn more, but that's kinda hard without specific references.
See above. The thread Bubudi referenced has lots more examples of various people playing the third slap.

Cheers,

Michi.
By bubudi
#11491
e2c wrote:I'm looking for specific tracks, though, besides Famoudou's.
tracks by mamady and boka were also mentioned above, and you could also look at the videos of nansedy, fode b, petit adama, mamady and famoudou in the other thread.
By bubudi
#11492
michi wrote:If you listen to Mamady's Djembe Rhythms No. 11 (Soboninkun) and No. 12 (Wassolonka), you can hear the heal-toe technique for the basses. He uses the same heel-toe technique for the basses on No 7 (Kuku).
that's surprising. has anyone learned any of the above solos from mamady with the heel-tip technique? afaik, he normally teaches those solos with regular basses and ghost notes.
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By e2c
#11494
ok, let me rephrase: cuts that feature the kind of sound/feel that comes from the adaptation of planibala playing to djembe?

I understand the whole third slap thing; that's not what I'm after, primarily. (Partly because I see that as a separate thing that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the adaptation of planibala playing to djembe per se.)

I mean; specific tracks from specific CDs by specific players - with a heads-up as to where in the track you can hear it, if at all possible.

No rush whatsoever on answers; I realize this might take some time.

What I would like to understand is the whole planibala tradition, insofar as possible.

Every time someone takes material that originates on other instruments and adapts it for djembe/dunun ensemble, it becomes something different, no matter how faithful the players are to the music itself (in playing the patterns well/correctly, etc.)

Edited to add: how is the planibala tuned? am assuming that the various heads are kept at different pitches? If so, it seems to me that the best one could do in transferring that music to djembe is to approximate the sound... Makes me wonder if anyone out there *is* performing on planibala for at least some of those pieces/rhythms.

Also, recordings of planibala - are there any out there?
By bubudi
#11497
e2c, the topalo is a technique which came from planibala. so those recordings are relevant in a small way. you can dig up some forest music from ivory coast via smithsonian folkways if you want the real thing (also try anthology of the world/rounder select and ocora labels). there is also a track of koungbana doing a planibala solo on one of the percussions de guinee cds (vol 2 iirc). i'm not sure as to how authentic his planibala playing is, but it's really nice stuff. oh yea, there is a bit in the dvd music from guinea with the planibala. michi posted a video clip of it. there's another video segment on ballet africains' jubilee production. and there's a video of the 3 headed drum of the dan (yacouba) people of ivory coast (a downsized version of pretty much the same instrument). for adaptations - kuku, soli des manian and zaouli are examples of rhythms that are adapted from this instrument, but it seems more of a transcription to another instrument than the borrowing of techniques from the original instrument (although some of that is definitely happening).

as for planibala tuning, i'm sure that's not a precise thing, but yes, they are tuned melodically and you will definitely hear that in any recording of the actual instrument being played.
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By michi
#11499
bubudi wrote:
michi wrote:If you listen to Mamady's Djembe Rhythms No. 11 (Soboninkun) and No. 12 (Wassolonka), you can hear the heal-toe technique for the basses. He uses the same heel-toe technique for the basses on No 7 (Kuku).
that's surprising. has anyone learned any of the above solos from mamady with the heel-tip technique? afaik, he normally teaches those solos with regular basses and ghost notes.
Mamady taught the solo or Wassolonka in San Diego last year, but didn't use the heal-toe technique. There were no ghost notes either.

Listening to the No. 12 CD, I don't think the extra taps you can hear are ghost notes because that would force really awkward handing. Heel-toe seems to be what's going on there. I'll put it on my list of things to ask Mamady. But Carl's statements regarding what Mahiri told him would fit in with the heel-toe theory...

Cheers,

Michi.
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By e2c
#11513
bubudi wrote:e2c, the topalo is a technique which came from planibala. so those recordings are relevant in a small way. you can dig up some forest music from ivory coast via smithsonian folkways if you want the real thing (also try anthology of the world/rounder select and ocora labels). there is also a track of koungbana doing a planibala solo on one of the percussions de guinee cds (vol 2 iirc). i'm not sure as to how authentic his planibala playing is, but it's really nice stuff. oh yea, there is a bit in the dvd music from guinea with the planibala. michi posted a video clip of it. there's another video segment on ballet africains' jubilee production. and there's a video of the 3 headed drum of the dan (yacouba) people of ivory coast (a downsized version of pretty much the same instrument). for adaptations - kuku, soli des manian and zaouli are examples of rhythms that are adapted from this instrument, but it seems more of a transcription to another instrument than the borrowing of techniques from the original instrument (although some of that is definitely happening).

as for planibala tuning, i'm sure that's not a precise thing, but yes, they are tuned melodically and you will definitely hear that in any recording of the actual instrument being played.
Many thanks, b! (And hey, I would be surprised if there was what you refer to as a "precise tuning" - but played and tuned in a melodic way was what I was going for.)

As for "transcription," I hear you - but by the same token, the whole melodic feel of the actual planibala is somehow lost in translation, no? (I'd think so; it's a very different kind of drum, with a different kind of sound...)
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By Dugafola
#11514
michi wrote:
bubudi wrote:
michi wrote:If you listen to Mamady's Djembe Rhythms No. 11 (Soboninkun) and No. 12 (Wassolonka), you can hear the heal-toe technique for the basses. He uses the same heel-toe technique for the basses on No 7 (Kuku).
that's surprising. has anyone learned any of the above solos from mamady with the heel-tip technique? afaik, he normally teaches those solos with regular basses and ghost notes.
Mamady taught the solo or Wassolonka in San Diego last year, but didn't use the heal-toe technique. There were no ghost notes either.

Listening to the No. 12 CD, I don't think the extra taps you can hear are ghost notes because that would force really awkward handing. Heel-toe seems to be what's going on there. I'll put it on my list of things to ask Mamady. But Carl's statements regarding what Mahiri told him would fit in with the heel-toe theory...

Cheers,

Michi.
he definitely doesn't teach it that way. it's his own jam.
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By Dugafola
#11515
michi wrote:
while we're at it, is anyone interested in discussing the parts to kuku and/or kuku maoka (both trad and modern)?
Sure, why not? Mamady taught Kuku Des Maoka at San Diego, so I feel that I'm on firm ground here :-)

Cheers,

Michi.
just taught Maoka to my class last week. for an audio reference, refer to Baba Toure's Daakan CD, Track 4 if i recall correctly and to Compagnie Dakan, track 6 Mahou Odjenne Kan. Harouna Dembele playing lead on that one. for the latter, its' only 1 dunun and 1 djembe....maybe an accomp djembe too.

one of my favorite kukus on disc is the one on Wassolon. 2 higher pitched accompaniement drums with the big/low drum playing the solo. the djembe solo on that track is the common language found for alot of the adapted parts for the dununba(variations too).
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By michi
#11516
Dugafola wrote:just taught Maoka to my class last week. for an audio reference, refer to Baba Toure's Daakan CD, Track 4 if i recall correctly
Yes, that's a great CD. Track 2 (Madan/Jagbe) is my all-time favourite recording for that rhythm. Baba Touré is a phenomenal player. Despite all his speed and virtuosity, he manages to always stay musical and give the rhythm room to breathe.
one of my favorite kukus on disc is the one on Wassolon. 2 higher pitched accompaniement drums with the big/low drum playing the solo.
Yes, that one is very unusual. Played fast, too, at around 155bpm.

Cheers,

Michi.
Last edited by michi on Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Dugafola
#11517
michi wrote: There is a good a example of Famoudou using that technique on "Rhythmen der Malinke", Sofa (track 17), starting at 2:15. He gets three different pitches of slaps.
i'm hearing the different slaps, but i don't think any of them are what we are referring to here IMO. i've seen FK play a lot live and i've heard him deliver that type of sound.


the kuku on Wassolon is what i've come to learn as more unique to Beyla and the Maoka style is more common around Odienne, Cote d'voire.