Discuss drumming technique here
#28051
Looking at the list of 40 rudiments (http://www.vicfirth.com/education/rudiments.php) I was surprised at how few applied to the djembe (in the sense that they do not appear in any solo phrases or accompaniments that I have encountered). This is mainly due to the fact that double strokes are rarely played by west african djembe players. Accordingly multiple bounce, double stroke, diddle and drag rudiments are not applicable here (unless anyone can show otherwise - I welcome being proved wrong!)

That got me wondering what the list would look like for Mandeng djembe...what are the rudiments of the djembe? Well, if we exclude the above list we are left with single stroke roll rudiments and flam rudiments. However, it seems to me that this short list of two categories does not contain all the essentail djembe techniques, so I'd propose a third category of 'classic slap/tone/bass combinations' (or something along those lines).

So here are a few suggestions:

1) The simplest single stroke roll might be an echauffement so that would be my first sub-category and would contain combinations such as:
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1..2..3..4..
ttsttsttstts
and
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1..2..3..4..
tsstsstsstss
As well as
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1...2...3...4...1...2...3...4...
tttssssssssssssstttsssssssssssss
and other classic echauffement patterns.

2) Flam rudiments might be things such as:
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1..2..3..4..
ftftftftftft
3) Classic slap/tone/bass combinations might be things such as:
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1...2...3...4...
t.st.st.st.st.st
Played r.rl.lr.rl.lr.rl

So what would other people include? Please don't just include your favourite phrase..rudiments should be things that embody essential techniques that commonly occur across many different phrases.

Of course the concept of rudiments is slightly alien to me as I was not trained on kit or snare, so it would be handy to have someone with an in-depth knowledge of the classic rudiments contributing. Does anyone have that knowledge?

Jon
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By e2c
#28058
I wish I could be of some help, but it seems to me that there are far more books out there that are meant to help drum set players learn African, Cuban, Brazilian (etc.) rhythms than the other way around.

I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that drum kit is still a relatively "new" instrument in African popular music. It has certainly been around for a while, but i'm guessing that the drums and cymbals have to be imported and that the cost is high.

Does anyone know of drum set, timpani (etc.) manufacturers in Africa?

Edited to add: there are many books available on playing Afro-Cuban rhythms, but I do not know of any that take the "rudiments" approach. (There may well be some, and I know that conga player Giovanni Hidalgo has done a lot with rudiments on conga - I think he has at least one video where he shows how he has adapted them.)
By bkidd
#28060
Jon,

I found the following link provides a much more informative description of the rudiments because one can click on each link to reveal a youtube video demonstrating the specific technique.
http://www.drumrudiments.com/

I watched many of the rudiments and found that the first three are commonly used on djembe (the single stroke stuff) as are the flams. Where the rudiments become difficult to translate onto djembe is with the double hits with the same hand (which seem to cover techniques 4-19, and the diddles), but we've already hashed this out on the other link.

The one thing that I would add about the differences in djembe and snare drum (term for any double stick playing) techniques is that the snare drum rudiments are completely focused rhythmic technique and dynamics, whereas, on the djembe one has to worry about different sounds.

-Brian
#28080
bkidd wrote:I found the following link provides a much more informative description of the rudiments because one can click on each link to reveal a youtube video demonstrating the specific technique.
The other link provides that also, sometimes with up to 3 videos.

Perhaps it is confusing to call what you are looking for in this thread rudiments, I begin to wonder. If you take the handing seriously that is used in those videos, there are hardly any of the rudiments I would put on djembe for african style drumming, see for example the flams: I would hardly ever change the handing with every flam.

Isn't the idea of rudiments that you have small patterns to practice so you can add them in every way you want, thus creating practically infinite possibilities to play larger patterns? In west african drumming, the timelines, specific "vocabulary" on specific rhythms, microtiming, all this seems to be more important. for the idea of small patterns to add to bigger ones I think Stephan Rigert has done an awesome job. Also, in "rudiment drumming" it seems that it is important to pracitce hard in order to be able to play equidistant pulses even if you play two or more notes with the same hand, while in african drumming it seems to me that this kind of handing is used exactly for the effect on changes in the microtiming.

If you are looking for a compendium of techniques that we could agree on is essential for Mandeng djembe drumming and would be worth to practice on every day, that would be a project that would interest me very much. Maybe (I hardly dare to use the word anymore, since the cigarette industry disparages a doubtful state of mind so much right now) this should include the "grammar" like timelines/ bell patterns and "vocabulary" like licks and patterns that are to be found in many rhythms alike? Perhaps also basic structures of microtiming like the two families in 12/8 and the two malian feelings in 16/8?
By bkidd
#28096
It's an interesting project. A while back I looked all the rhythms I had collected from various sources and ran simple counts of patterns by category: bells and djembe accompaniment in binary and ternary lines (your 16/8 and 12/8 distinction).

Binary:
~50% of bell patterns came from three lines
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   1 - - - 2 - - - 3 - - - 4 - - - 
|: * - * * - * * - * - * * - * * -  :|
|: * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -  :|
|: * - * * - * * - * - * - * - * -  :|
~25% of djembe patterns were the passport accompaniment

Ternary:
~45% of bell patterns came from the three different shuffle patterns
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   1 - - 2 - - 3 - - 4 - - 
|: * - * * - * * - * * - * :|
|: * * - * * - * * - * * - :|
|: - * * - * * - * * - * * :|
~33% of djembe patterns were pa - ti pa or pa - - ta pi ti

This was done about a year ago so I'm sure I could clean up the counts, but if you want to work on common lines, these would be a place to start.

-brian
User avatar
By alifaa
#28131
bkidd wrote: Ternary:
~45% of bell patterns came from the three different shuffle patterns
Code: Select all
   1 - - 2 - - 3 - - 4 - - 
|: * - * * - * * - * * - * :|
|: * * - * * - * * - * * - :|
|: - * * - * * - * * - * * :|
Hey Brian,

I have taught 3 dundun classes locally now, just to get some of the class participants a bit more up to speed on the traditional duns, and to improve their general understanding of rhythms. I did a similar exercise with the bell patterns, and I would add another dimension, especially to the Ternary:
|: * - * - * - * - * - * - :|
The vast majority of bell patterns (barring weird modern versions) have either 4 doubles (**-**- etc), 6 singles, or a combination of 2 doubles and 3 singles (liberte, babaninco and easy soli). Two "general" rules of thumb for all bell patterns is that you will never get more than 2 hits in a row, and never have a gap of more than one unit (obvious exceptions are the simplified bell pattern for Sorsonet duns with 3 hits in a row, and some of the 4/4 kenkeni rhythms where you have 2 bell hits followed by two spaces, Kuku and Djole for example).

While this may be a bit technical and western to analyse it this much, I saw your post and was impressed that there was someone out there who thought of breaking it down like this as well!! :o

Cheers

Wayne
By TNT
#28435
djembeweaver wrote:Looking at the list of 40 rudiments (http://www.vicfirth.com/education/rudiments.php) Of course the concept of rudiments is slightly alien to me as I was not trained on kit or snare, so it would be handy to have someone with an in-depth knowledge of the classic rudiments contributing. Does anyone have that knowledge?
Jon
Now it's my turn: Since no one has stepped up to the plate and answered this question I will. Answer: I'm leaving the site that leaves no one out here! Sorry this thread and the "rewritten 40 djembe rudiments" went no where fast! You might find some expert critics over on my thread that can help? Perhaps produce some instruction video rather than act like they know what they are talking about on my thread when it is very clear they don't. Perhaps with their "valuable practice time" become a real part of the solution not the problem ME that degrades this site to a small number of participating members.

In all my thirty plus years playing drums I have NEVER seen such childish ridicule to fellow drummers. I'm am sure the real creators and founders of this drum would be VERY disappointed in the ones out here that think they represent. If this is what "traditional" djembe is all about I want no part of it!

Good buy,

TNT
User avatar
By e2c
#28439
I think one of the big problems is that we have tried to help you learn fundamental strokes and such, but you have not been willing to listen to anyone here, except for Michi, and even then, only a little.

There are techniques that are very specific to djembe, and there are plenty of vids and threads here about exactly those things.

Take some time and look around.
User avatar
By michi
#28797
djembeweaver wrote:Is it safe to come out now?
I have my arsenal of moderation tools fully-sharpened and ready, 24 hours a day. (For the time being, it's not my djembe that shares my bed, but my moderation toolkit… ;) )

Michi.