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Re: Rudiments on Djembe

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:55 pm
by Dugafola
gr3vans wrote:oh lord... why do I keep reading this thread?
Haha. Face, meet Palm. Palm, meet face.

Re: Rudiments on Djembe

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:39 pm
by TNT
One thing as common as a conga has to the djembe, bass, tone, slap, is most forum people are never wrong ha that comes from years of participating on them. Then you have to love the ones that are part of the problem, not the solution, the experts in their own minds that have nothing positive to say, just non valued added junk that ruin threads.

I’ve asked many times on this thread to help me understand the djembe notation and these “traditional licks” no answer but yet I get stupid post like this,
Dugafola wrote:
gr3vans wrote:oh lord... why do I keep reading this thread?
Haha. Face, meet Palm. Palm, meet face.
Obviously by people that are so good at playing djembe they have nothing better to do but critique others. I mean come on grow up how difficult is that and how respectful is it of your fellow drummer’s efforts? Where is your video I’d love to see it? Or is the only you are good at is hiding behind your computer as a critic? How immature and brave!! HA! I removed mine you all got what you wanted what a waste of my time! Now you’ll have to find something else to do with your silly post and time?

If the rudiments are helping me learn non-traditional or tradional djembe that’s all I need to know, I don’t need to prove it, debate it, or argue it with anyone especially some that have no credibility and make stupid comments like children.

Mods it was suggested by one that post be removed, please do remove the entire thread since it is so wrong and offensive.

[Moderator note: I see no reason to remove the thread. As far as I can see, it stayed well within the bounds established by the Rules and Guidelines —Michi]

Re: Rudiments on Djembe

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:37 am
by TNT
gr3vans wrote:oh lord... why do I keep reading this thread?
My post are gone now there is nothing for you to read or make fun of that makes sense. Maybe now you'll find something constructive to do with your childish life.

Re: Rudiments on Djembe

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:02 am
by Dugafola
TNT wrote:
I’ve asked many times on this thread to help me understand the djembe notation and these “traditional licks” no answer but yet I get stupid post like this,
Dugafola wrote:
gr3vans wrote:oh lord... why do I keep reading this thread?
Haha. Face, meet Palm. Palm, meet face.
Obviously by people that are so good at playing djembe they have nothing better to do but critique others. I mean come on grow up how difficult is that and how respectful is it of your fellow drummer’s efforts? Where is your video I’d love to see it? Or is the only you are good at is hiding behind your computer as a critic? How immature and brave!! HA! I removed mine you all got what you wanted what a waste of my time! Now you’ll have to find something else to do with your silly post and time?
where did i critique you? i think i've posted a total of 2 sentences on this entire thread.

Re: Rudiments on Djembe

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:14 pm
by Carl
Dugafola wrote:where did i critique you? i think i've posted a total of 2 sentences on this entire thread.
Duga, I am disappointed in you. For someone who loves this music so much, you said nothing to try and help TNT. The only contribution you made was to support someone being disrespectful to TNT, you critiqued by proxy.

I will be posting more on this issue, but I tend to send people to this site specifically because of the respect that is shown to beginners.

Just because someone has a lot of experience outside of the djembe world (good bad or indifferent) does not mean that you can "disrespect" their experience because it is not "traditional". There are many paths to the drum, and if you actually believe in the djembes message, then you shouldn't care how someone gets there.

I wish TNT left his responses up, I do think he was misunderstanding something, or that there was some sore spot for him personally, but I usually expect this group to manage that in a respectful way.

Thanks for listening,
Carl
{gets off soap box, then trips and stumbles... totally ruining the "high horse" image he had of himself...}

Re: Rudiments on Djembe

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:36 pm
by rachelnguyen
I feel like folks have shown herculean restraint, frankly.

And I really do think there is some interesting conversation going on here... I think the most interesting part, for me, had to do with why learning the traditional stuff is important if you want to play with others... or for a dance classes. It is critical to be able to communicate with one another using a common language. For me, traditional (Malian) drumming is a language that I am learning. I have been playing at dance classes lately and am very aware of how much the dancers and drummers effect one another. If I screw up, I take the whole class with me. By the same token, when I am playing, I can't look at the dancers (especially if they are beginners) because they will pull me off.

The real crux of the issue is that traditional drumming is about communicating in a community. That is why we do what we do. If someone wants to play by themselves, they don't have to learn the communal language.

Re: Rudiments on Djembe

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:28 pm
by djembefeeling
rachelnguyen wrote:I feel like folks have shown herculean restraint, frankly.
Yepp! but that was set from the begining. If I am a newbe to something and start discuss on a forum with devoted and experienced people, I would be eager to learn from them and at least try to understand if they keep telling me about a crucial difference. it is my responsibility to get basic information. not reading the arguments against the application of rudiments from the other thread past the first page was sending a strong message. perhaps we haven't been clear enough, but it was kind of hard to get through (all I need is rudiments - point!).

of course you can play rudiments on a djembe -- as you can on a saxophone. but what's the point? you will never experience the sounds that are supposed to come out of that instrument. the djembe is about sounds. it takes so many years of practice to almost master those sufficiently (not even nicely). you cannot even think about getting really good sounds while playing double strokes regularly. imagine you play that style with crappy sounds in a complete band with three dunduns, bells , and good accompaniments. you wouldn't be heard. also, drumming the traditional rhythms limits your freedom to wara wara around. this kind of drumming is a foreign language. you need to learn vocabulary (lots of specific phrases and accompaniments) and grammar (bell patterns/ time lines).

If you don't want this -- fine. I think it is o.k. to treat a Remo any way you like. you can also remain ignorant of the complete tradition of the instrument and the music that used to be played with it. but you cannot keep claiming rudiments is all you need for every kind of drumming when in fact you don't have a clue about this specific kind of drumming.

Re: Rudiments on Djembe

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:44 pm
by Dugafola
Carl wrote:
Dugafola wrote:where did i critique you? i think i've posted a total of 2 sentences on this entire thread.
Duga, I am disappointed in you. For someone who loves this music so much, you said nothing to try and help TNT. The only contribution you made was to support someone being disrespectful to TNT, you critiqued by proxy.
wow. are you serious dude?

what could i have said that all you people haven't said already? really?

my face palm wasn't directed at TNT either, but the entire thread...it's obvious the dude wasn't gonna hear it, but people still persisted in dragging it out. IMO, it's a textbook troll thread.

Re: Rudiments on Djembe

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:33 pm
by gr3vans
I'm not going to apologize for what I've said, and duga's response encapsulated my feeling perfectly. My overwhelming frustration is that there is a block in peoples thinking and they simply do not give themselves the room to listen. If your cup is full... yada yada yada. There is a point in my philosophy where me telling someone my advice becomes pointless when it falls on deaf ears. At this point the error becomes mine and is a result of my own hubris that encourages the continuation of my own promulgation of my well crafted opinions. This is not to say that people can not change, but talking at them is not going to make that happen. * insert Ian Mckay's voice *

I do feel like this thread could have value, and should have value; however, this is not the place I want to come to learn to play stick rudiments on a djembe. this is a place I like to come to hear about real lessons in learning music that stems from cultural traditions in West Africa.

I am not an expert. I have never made such a claim. I am a student and try to remain humble. With a clear perspective I am decades behind in my learning in relation to a good portion of this sites contributors. Not sure if TNT is still reading this, but my true feeling towards you is simple. I think it is ridiculous for you to claim expertise (hey lets post on expert village... a site which I personally give a value of zero) when you have no expertise in an area or willingness to listen to a potential community that could help you gain something of value. If you want rudiments I would propose one. Exercise restraint in your desire to be a big shot out of the gate, get rid of your lights, and go play 'pa ti pa' for two years and nothing else. after you do this then reflect on what you've learned by doing so. You will be a better person and musician for it.

[as I exit my soapbox i realize that i have double parked Carl... oops! hope he's not leaving before me, maybe I'll leave a note]

I do except full responsibility for being an ass, as I fully intended. This is not respectable behavior and not the highest road. for this I am sort of sorry. :doh:

love,

greg

Re: Rudiments on Djembe

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:54 pm
by michi
My five cents worth…

In a way, I find this thread truly fascinating, and the fervour it seems to have invoked in quite a few people makes me think that there is a lot of substance here. So, TNT, if you are still reading this, thank you for, if nothing else, having stimulated a really interesting discussion!

I keep coming back to the famous "there are many lessons the djembe has to teach". That's what seems to be happening right here (at least for me). I'm learning quite a lot from this thread, and in all sorts of interesting ways that don't necessarily have to do with music. (As an aside, that's the second time in only three weeks that's happened to me. After bombing out of the certificate test in Bali a second time, the djembe taught me another lesson. Humility in spades, that time. Sometimes, I wish the bloody djembe would take its lessons and put them where the sun don't shine :) But I digress…)

This time around, the lesson seems to be about tolerance and patience. I live and learn…

As to rudiments, I still think that they have value. I've been playing various rudiments ever since I first touched a djembe. Mostly not the rudiments that are used for stick drums though.

TNT, some of the people who have contributed to this discussion are extremely accomplished and experienced players with many years of study with masters under their belt. They truly do know what they are talking about. Now, when I join a community of experts as someone with zero experience, I tend to listen and learn for a while. I generally do not step in and try to educate them until after I have gained some experience myself. (No, the djembe truly is not made from the Djem tree, and a lug-tuned plastic djembe is a djembe only in name…) Just possibly, there is another lesson the djembe has to teach right there.

Carl, I agree with Rachel that the restraint reached herculean proportions at times. This is a board that is friendly to everyone who comes along. But people who join here and state their opinion in public should be prepared to receive responses that may not be to their liking. That's the nature of public discussions. If I can't handle the replies I receive, I had better not post in the first place.

Cheers,

Michi.

Re: Rudiments on Djembe

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:16 am
by michi
[Moderator note: I have quarantined the most recent post by TNT because it was in clear violation of the Rules and Guidelines. Further, I have locked this thread for the time being.

Please do not re-open this topic in another thread. In addition, please respect the Rules and Guidelines for the forum. I will not tolerate insults, ad-hominem attacks, or any other offensive behavior, and I will exercise my moderation rights without hesitation if I come across any of these.

TNT, you are welcome to continue to contribute to the forum. If you do, please keep posts polite and on topic. This is your first and final warning regarding offensive language and ad-hominem attacks.

Michi.]