[the kid]

New rules are up for all to see. I for one don,t like them. There too long and pretty conservative. I take offense that we can,t openly discuss these new rules. Its an insult to any body whos been a long time member of this forum. )Whats wrong guys, dont like any critisim, hope ya dont get into politics) We signed up to this site under different terms and were never asked would we like these terms changed. I know they needed to be modernised but this is over the top

[James]

Errr did you not read the rules, please re-write your Subject to you be more informative...

[James]

Please don't take the rules personally. They are a necessary.

When you signed up it clearly says:

We may change these at any time and we’ll do our utmost in informing you, though it would be prudent to review this regularly yourself as your continued usage of “Djembefola - Djembe Forum” after changes mean you agree to be legally bound by these terms as they are updated and/or amended.

Now that's legalnise talk for ya? The fact is nothing is going to change around here anyway. There's not stunning rules snuck in there is there?

These rules took a few weeks to bring together and took a lot of hard work and time for us...

I assure you that to draft a set of rules using the hive mind would have taken a lot longer...

It's an agreement between us all and as such we welcome your input. If you have a problem with a specific rule or guideline let me know and I'll decide if we need to discuss it publicly.

These guidelines are to give us something to refer to when we moderate:
Say for example a new member flames someone. Unless we can refer them to the rule that says they can't do that, we have no legs to stand on.

In my opinion, the need for guidelines has become apparent to everyone recently.

Please keep in mind the fact that these are:
1) For the benefit of the community
2) A long term investment. Things are going to continue to grow around here and we need the structure in place before hand.

[James]

There too long and pretty conservative.

That's your opinion.

I take offense that we can,t openly discuss these new rules.

Who said we can't discuss them? Please don't take this personally.

Its an insult to any body whos been a long time member of this forum.

Again your opinion

We signed up to this site under different terms and were never asked would we like these terms changed.

True but as it clearly states, we can and may change the guidelines at any time and do our best to inform you if we have done so....

I know they needed to be modernised but this is over the top

Again your opinion

Can always rely on you to have an opinion and share it dude

I am interested hearing other peoples opinion on this.

[Rhythm House Drums]

There's rules??

[the kid]

It was the

""""If you have a grievance or objection ....... to the Terms and Conditions or these Rules then do not discuss it publicly on the forum"""

that got me.

So what do i do? Discuss it publicly on the forum.

Cheers for clarifing your position and sorry to hinder or give out about your good work here. I know you work hard for the benefit of the community.

Good luck

[e2c]

I'm all for having guidelines and so on - I think they're a necessary part of life for any forum, for both members and mods.

I was a bit surprised by this, though:

If you have a grievance or objection ....... to the Terms and Conditions or these Rules then do not discuss it publicly on the forum

As well as (in general) wondering who is going to make the determination (and how it's going to be made) regarding abusive language, and particularly culturally insensitive vs. culturally sensitive language/topics/discussions. I'm not complaining at all here, just wondering if there could be a bit of clarification?

Thanks in advance!

[rachelnguyen]

Ok.... donning forum member hat....(as opposed to moderator)

I understand why there is a rule against publicly debating the rules.... I have been on forums where that wasn't enforced and the conversation just drags the forum off topic. Handling stuff private prevents that.

I think, in this case, it is more geared towards if a moderator or list owner takes action to enforce a rule in the future, we don't want to endlessly debate whether they handled it correctly in public. If there are concerns, it can be dealt with offline.

That's my interpretation, anyway.

[e2c]

I think, in this case, it is more geared towards if a moderator or list owner takes action to enforce a rule in the future, we don't want to endlessly debate whether they handled it correctly in public. If there are concerns, it can be dealt with offline.

Quite reasonable, too! (I've also seen that happen.)

[bubudi]

as forums grow, the rules change and get longer. if other forums are anything to go by, then the rules go through several such changes. what we've done here is try to go for clarity - so people know what's acceptable and what isn't. we added guidelines which help new members interact better with our community (they are worded as advice rather than as rules). by doing that we have our existing members' interests at heart. the rules and guidelines as they stand are shorter than what many larger boards have. we didn't want to write a book or put everyone through reading one! but we didn't go for the shortest possible, because we wanted something that is likely to work in the future with the growth of this board.

for the most part, nothing is different for long-time members. i feel most of these were our 'unwritten' rules that we lived by on the forum since the days when there were a dozen or so active members. of course, some things have to change as the forum grows and that's unavoidable. perhaps try to bear ( ) these things in mind while you look through the rules, and you might see that they're really not going to change much for you. perhaps only time will tell that...

if there's something that isn't quite clear in the rules, that can be explained. do we need to do that publicly? maybe, maybe not. there are several considerations that come to mind:

• rules are written to ensure everyone gets along and enjoys themselves, but to be effective they need to be enforced from time to time. a lot of public discussion can send a message that they're written to be broken or debated.
• forums can get bogged down by a heaviness from too much drama, debate, or heavy discussion. you're always welcome to make suggestions and to ask for a rule to be clarified, but it may be better to keep the forums on the lighter side, while still allowing full discussion with the moderating team.
• additions or modifications to the rules may be necessary in due course. do we have a public discussion every time that happens?
• where does the discussion stop? if moderators find themselves having to take action in the future, do we have a discussion about whether they handled it correctly? do we allow people to publicly say 'i think x should be banned'?

[bubudi]

wondering who is going to make the determination (and how it's going to be made) regarding abusive language, and particularly culturally insensitive vs. culturally sensitive language/topics/discussions.

that's up to the moderating team. it's made on the principle of respect towards others. for instance, if someone posted a sexist joke, at least 50% of members would be annoyed or offended. in the same way, we want to avoid offending members as well as guests on this board who come from other cultures. the key phrases are:

You are entitled to disagree with cultural practices but... There is always a way to get your point across without offending others.

(rules and guidelines, 1b)
being culturally sensitive is difficult when it comes to emotionally charged issues. it requires a certain level of restraint, but we would expect at least the same level of restraint (if not more) if it came to an argument between two people. which brings me to abusive language. the key phrases are:

keep your criticism about the idea and not the person

(r&g, 1a)

No antagonistic, abusive, denigrating, defamatory or threatening behaviour will be tolerated

(r&g, 1a)

profanity... is allowed as long as it is not directed at others or used excessively

(r&g, 6b)
these principles allow a certain amount of freedom, but clearly would not allow namecalling, swearing at someone or other sorts of personal attacks or threats. 'antagonistic behaviour' refers to comments that are clearly designed to anger other members. when determining if someone has displayed antagonistic behaviour, the moderators would first explore if there was another possible explanation. they may also take into account whether the member was provoked (although that doesn't excuse the behaviour). in the end, it would be rare that a moderator would need to take action against someone and no-one has been banned yet (cross fingers) for abusive or antagonistic behaviour.

[e2c]

bubudi, thanks muchly for the clarification - though I wish I'd just gone back and re-read some of the text you quoted before asking my questions, as it would have saved you the trouble of all that cut-and-paste work!

I think this is a terrific way to put it:

You are entitled to disagree with cultural practices but... There is always a way to get your point across without offending others.

I say this partly because there are some (to me) pretty objectional cultural practices in my own country and society - it's not as if it's a case of "those other guys/gals" doing something "objectionable" or "strange" (or whatever). (Not to mention the fact that we've got members from all over, and even though most of us speak a common language, our countries are really quite different one from another... which has sometimes led to a bit of good-natured confusion.)

And I think you're absolutely right about getting a point across without causing offense. I think what's important for me to remember is to back off and walk away for a while before replying when things start getting heated.

Agreed, too, on the fact that forums do grow and change.

I also very much like your bear !