Advice and questions on making and fixing instruments
By fiene_bee
#14359
My uncle (who is ingeneer and likes to construct stuff) and I constructed a tool that pulls at both ends of the djembe. So you pull vertical A and at the same time you pull vertical Y 180° further. You keep the tension by putting the pulling rope in a camcleat. In the next step, you pull with another pulling rope vertical B, next to vertical A and at the same time you pull vertical Z, next to Y and 180° further than B. While you are pulling B and Z, you loosen the first pulling rope out of the camcleat, so you can pull (with the second pulling rope) through the tension the least loss as possible. Then you fix the second pulling rope in a camcleat, so you keep the tension.

The advantage of the method is:
- we attach prussik knots at eacht vertical, so you do not have to put a cam cleat on the rope you want to pull.
- the djembe stands up and is balanced because you pull both sides.
- the rings stay leveled;

The disadvantages are:
- at the "last" round of pulling, I feel the need to pull one side at the time, because I do not want any more slack created at the other side of the drum, but I haven't figured out how to do this in a comfortable way (see next disadvantage).
- because I'm a girl with very limited pulling strength, I use pulleys to multiply my force. I multiply by eight, devided over both sides, so I'm able to pull four times my strength. Unfortunately, that means that if I want to tighten the vertical one centimeter, I have to move the pulling cord 8 centimeter. If I have to pull already 5cm's to tighten the pulling cords up, I have to pull the pulling cord 40 cm.
- I still have to pull sitting down, so I'm still pulling on my back

The challenge is to:
- find a combination of the double pulling system and the system using a foot pedal.

I'd like to add photo's, but I do not know how to do that.

Greetz, fiene

-
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By michi
#14402
You can add photos by clicking the "Post Reply" button at the bottom of a post. In page that appears, compose your reply and click the "Upload attachment" tab. There you can select the image you want to attach to your post.

By default, any images you upload appear at the bottom of your post. If you want an image to appear in the middle of your text somewhere, place the cursor at that position and click the "Place inline" button for the image to have it inserted at that point.

I'd be keen to see images of the pulling stand you made! It sounds interesting. It's not clear to me how the whole thing works, so I really would like to see a picture. Does this stand save time and/or effort compared to an ordinary one with a single clamcleat?

Cheers,

Michi.
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By Dugafola
#14414
i kinda like simplistic pulling stands for the sole reason that with too much of a mechanical advantage, you can't really feel what's going on with the drum and skin. each skin will react to tension differently so it's important to be be able to feel it when you're pulling. a little more muscle isn't going to hurt you.

i know a couple of guys who still prefer to use the dowel. of course, the more you become familiar with your setup, the more dialed in you can get your drums.
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By Djembe-nerd
#14418
I agree with Duga (Atleast till I also have one of these fancy monsters :-))

Till that time here is the arsenal
Attachments
tools.jpg
tools.jpg (42.55 KiB) Viewed 2912 times
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By michi
#14419
I agree about the excess leverage. Less is probably better. I find that, with my stand, I have leverage of about 2-3. That's plenty enough: by leaning on the pedal, I can easily put around 150kg of pull on a vertical (which is already too much).

Djembe-nerd, I've never used the lever you show (but have watched other people use it). One thing I never understood is why the cleat is attached to that rigid horizontal piece. I can see how it works the first time I go around but, for the second round, it seems you couldn't get the cleat attached to the verticals, so you'd have to do all the tightening in a single round.

What puzzles me: why not leave that horizontal piece off and instead attach the cleat at the same point with a 15-20" piece of rope? That way, I could use the same tool to do the initial tightening as well as a second round because I could work the cleat onto the already tightened verticals?

Cheers,

Michi.
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By Djembe-nerd
#14424
Michi,

I had the same questions in the beginning when I was making this tool, with "inspiration" from the photos on the websites that sell them. I asked them and they didn;t give a very precise answer except " You will find your way around it".

Here is how I tighten the djembe :

Once I have done the hand pull, I start from the open end of the rope (the one that will start the weave) and tighten the verticals till I reach the fixed knot end. By this time I have enough rope from the tightening (about 2-3 feet). I have not tied the fixed end knot yet. I tie a temporary knot but leave 6 inch extra slack. So I start backwards from the fixed end with a 6 inch rope slack for the tool to pull and not be digging into the shell. When I reach the other end I tie a temporary knot and start back around with a 6 inch slack again. I use locking pliers to lock the ropes and the ring stay where I pulled them and locked. Only need 2nd locking plier at the end when I am switching and going back the other way around at the end. I tie the knot permanently at the fixed end in the pen-ultimate round and then work back and start the weave.

If this is sounding confusing, I am sorry, just trying to explain it. In short I leave a 6 inch slack all the time and the slack doesn't effect the tightening I have already done. In this way I don't dig into the shell, its an easy process, just difficult to explain.

I am always pulling the verticals like this photo with teh 6 inch slack
Attachments
tool.jpg
tool.jpg (22.37 KiB) Viewed 2911 times
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By michi
#14427
Ah, OK, thanks for the explanation. Makes sense. It just didn't occur to me to go back in the opposite direction after the initial round :-)

Cheers,

Michi.
By fiene_bee
#14430
Here are some pics. Thanks by the way to explain how to do this, cause it was a big mystery, since I only replied with the quick reply field...

The first gives a view of the double side pulling. the picture was not taken to illustrate the device, so maybe (with all the cords), it's not that clear.
IMG_4360.jpg
IMG_4360.jpg (333.07 KiB) Viewed 2909 times
The other one gives you an overview of the pulling stand.
IMG_4359.jpg
IMG_4359.jpg (309.02 KiB) Viewed 2909 times
The main advantage is that you have to pull half the number of cords, to do a round. And of course, it makes it possible for me to pull a djembe tight.

grtz, fiene
By bubudi
#14442
hi fiene

it looks like you are pulling two verticals at once by tying a short length of rope to both, which then attaches to the device. it seems that instead of pulling towards the foot of the drum, the force is outwards. if my observation is correct, the disadvantage i can see with this is that you are putting outward pressure on the rings which can widen them and contribute to slippage.

to add a foot lever to your device would not require much modification. use sturdier pulleys towards the back and mount them right near the edge. have a short length of rod or metal tube with a somewhat upward-angled bit welded to it as a foot lever. attach this to either side of the main unit with springs. the foot lever/pulley does the pulling that you otherwise have to do by hand and the spring returns the lever to the original position after you remove your foot. there are many other ways to achieve the same thing and i'm sure you'll find a solution that suits you.

i would also recommend getting a device called 'clam cleat' which is available at most mountain climbing and boating supply shops. it is designed to grip a rope until you release it, preventing the need to make knots and undo them again every time you pull a pair of verticals. clam cleats are inexpensive.
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By Dugafola
#14478
bubudi wrote: a feature that would be cool to have on any pulling stand is something to hold the last vertical while you pull the next one... everyone uses vice grips, but it would be nice to have something equal to that which is attached to the actual stand and which doesn't chew down on the rope as much as the teeth on vice grips do, so there will be less fray, giving you more milage for your rope.
you should file down the ends of your vice grips. problem solved.

also, you guys should try to use a climbing ascender rather than a cleat. ascenders can be pricey, but are much faster and efficient over a cleat. the only problem with an ascender is modding it so it doesn't chew your rope. you either need an old, beat ascender, or take the time to work in a new one.
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By michi
#14482
I've heard the climbing ascenders mentioned a few times, and they look pretty nifty.

One question: is it possibly to squeeze the ascender under an already-tightened vertical for a second round of pulling? It's difficult to tell from the picture. I use a side-entry cleat, which I can attach to a vertical even if that vertical is quite tight already. If the ascender can do the same thing, I'd give it a go.

Cheers,

Michi.
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By Dugafola
#14483
michi wrote:I've heard the climbing ascenders mentioned a few times, and they look pretty nifty.

One question: is it possibly to squeeze the ascender under an already-tightened vertical for a second round of pulling? It's difficult to tell from the picture. I use a side-entry cleat, which I can attach to a vertical even if that vertical is quite tight already. If the ascender can do the same thing, I'd give it a go.

Cheers,

Michi.
absolutely michi. you see the piece of the body with the arrow on it on the near side of the cam? you can use that to slide under a tight vert. what i normally do is use a screwdriver to create room and then leverage the ascender into place.

i have found that he only place i run into a really tight vert is when starting at my knot on each successive pull. only the first 2-3 verts are tough. after that, you should have enough slack to work through.

also, i've noticed that some people will use the ascender and stand to pull the loose slack through. this is OK and works in the end but i've found that if your rope is already twisted, it's only going to get worse if you do it this way. after i vice off my vert, i normally work the rope through using my hands so i can orient it to minimize twisting etc. the way you lace your rope through your knots has a lot do with how much potential knotting/twisting you get...

another tip, ascenders come in right and left hand orientations. i normally lace my rope going counterclockwise. a RH and LH ascender each have their +/- as far as speed and efficiency. i've also seen some franken-ascenders...ones that have been trimmed of excess metal in order to work even more effective.

most ascenders usually are for ropes around 11mm+, you're going to have to put some putty into the channel to be able to effectively use it on 5mm rope. there may be ascenders that'll properly hold a 5mm rope. i have also filed down the teeth quite a bit.

like i mentioned before, it can take some work to get the ascender to work as desired. but it's so easy once it's dialed!!

i'll post some pics of my stand soon...but it basically looks like Bolokada's.
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By michi
#14484
Hi Duga, thanks for the info!

I'll scout out some climbing shops and see what I can find. I was concerned about rope thickness too when I look at a few ascenders on the web. The ones I found all say that 8mm is the minimum diameter. What sort of putty did you use to pad out the ascender? Could you post a pic?

Cheers,

Michi.
By bubudi
#14488
Dugafola wrote:you should file down the ends of your vice grips. problem solved.
i put mine to a grinder, but find they still do a bit of damage. some day someone will find an alternative that doesn't fray the rope and is just as efficient as the ascender.
also, you guys should try to use a climbing ascender
i looked for those a couple of years ago and couldn't locate one for under $100 here. the idea is great. i find the cleats chew the rope a bit as it is, and are too much messing around to file down. are the teeth on the ascender easy to get to with a file?