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By Dugafola
#8181
michi@triodia.com wrote:One question, out of curiosity: has anyone ever failed the test and taken it a second time?

Cheers,

Michi.

not sure if "fail" is the appropriate word. I do know of people having to re-take the test.

some people have tried to learn the solos based on recordings either aquired from workshops or from the CDs that have since been released. when they actually go to play these for Mamady, they soon realize that their handing is all fockered up and that they basically need to go and re-learn some of the phrases again with proper handing.
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By michi
#8186
Dugafola wrote:not sure if "fail" is the appropriate word. I do know of people having to re-take the test.
Well, OK :) But it means "not yet good enough, try again in a few months" :) So, at least the test is stringent enough to not let people get away with a half-baked effort. (Not that this surprises me, having learned from Mamady...)
some people have tried to learn the solos based on recordings either aquired from workshops or from the CDs that have since been released. when they actually go to play these for Mamady, they soon realize that their handing is all fockered up and that they basically need to go and re-learn some of the phrases again with proper handing.
Yes, the handing thing is a big problem, at least for some of the phrases, where there is more than one possible handing. I generally try to figure out the most efficient handing. And, knowing that Mamady almost always plays hand over hand (even when that tends to overwork one side) helps a little bit.

One thing that would be simply awesome would be to have a handing chart for the phrases where the handing isn't obvious. Maybe one of these days, a kind person will volunteer. If I ever get this certificate, I might do that myself--I know that people who don't have access to a TTM teacher would definitely appreciate it!

Cheers,

Michi.
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By Carl
#8191
michi@triodia.com wrote: And, knowing that Mamady almost always plays hand over hand (even when that tends to overwork one side) helps a little bit.
Places where that is not true...

Kuku, soli des manian, soko (came to mind right away)

Also, there are places where there are timing basses on the pulse, that might NOT be the way you think (djabara, possibly others?)

I am starting to understand the logic of the handing that breaks from the "hand over hand". I particularly like the handing on technique 3 and the "out" techniques of Soko. The solo for Soko (as taught by Mamady) is broken up into 2 parts, with this cool extension of part of technique 3 in both places (between sections, and the ending). The timing is like 4/4 against the 6/8 and the handing does not follow "hand over hand" for either feels.
michi@triodia.com wrote:One thing that would be simply awesome would be to have a handing chart for the phrases where the handing isn't obvious. Maybe one of these days, a kind person will volunteer. If I ever get this certificate, I might do that myself--I know that people who don't have access to a TTM teacher would definitely appreciate it!
One of the first things I do after learning a solo is to transcribe everything and notate the handing, especially where it deviates from hand over hand. I think it is a good exorcise for the learner to do this themselves (especially at your level Michi). :-)

That is not to say that I can not be bribed... ;-)

On that note, I'm not sure what is acceptable for exchange / posting when it comes to this info... I'd hate to make it too easy on people who are NOT interested in actually working with a teacher... ??? I'll have to talk to Mahiri about this...

C

PS: which way you hand your rolls is another whole part of this conversation!
By Garvin
#8193
I've taught myself some of the solos off Mamady's Cd's, then video recorded and sent them to a friend who is certified to check out my handing. That's a fair way I thought to "get away with it" without having to fly to Guinea :)

My hands were surprisingly only slightly off at some points. I think this has to do with having worked with certified teachers before.

As devils advocate, I might ask what would be wrong with learning the solos by ear and playing the handing wrong if you are still ending up with the same feel/sound? I suppose it might have to do with developing a bad habit or something that might affect you down the road in the certificate process?
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By michi
#8194
Carl wrote:One of the first things I do after learning a solo is to transcribe everything and notate the handing, especially where it deviates from hand over hand. I think it is a good exorcise for the learner to do this themselves (especially at your level Michi). :-)
"exorcise"? Or "exercise"? Something Freudian going on here by any chance? ;-)

Well, for those solos that I've seen played by Mamady, not a problem. I know the handing. But I don't for ones I haven't seen him play. And, with no TTM teacher in my neck of the woods, the knowledge is a little hard to come by :) Basically, I don't really mind what handing I play. If Mamady wants handing X, I'm happy to do handing X. It's not the handing that's the problem--it's knowing what handing he wants to see.
That is not to say that I can not be bribed... ;-)
Hmmm... You coming to the next Mini-Guinea in April/May? If so, I'll bribe you with all the beer/wine/spirit you can drink in one evening :)
On that note, I'm not sure what is acceptable for exchange / posting when it comes to this info... I'd hate to make it too easy on people who are NOT interested in actually working with a teacher... ??? I'll have to talk to Mahiri about this...
Interesting point. I really don't know either. Ideally, the teaching CDs would come with some handing notes but, alas, they don't. I don't think there is any secret about the handing though, is there? And, in my case, believe me, it's not a case of not being interested in working with a teacher. If I could have a TTM teacher here, I'd be there twice a week, you bet!

Anyway, Duga kindly offered to review video for me on occasion when I have a handing question, which I'm most grateful for! I'm sure that will help.
PS: which way you hand your rolls is another whole part of this conversation!
Why, the right hand (as opposed to the wrong hand) of course! ;)

Cheers,

Michi.
By bubudi
#8196
Carl wrote:On that note, I'm not sure what is acceptable for exchange / posting when it comes to this info... I'd hate to make it too easy on people who are NOT interested in actually working with a teacher... ??? I'll have to talk to Mahiri about this...
i see more and more youtube videos out there with solo material from mamady and others, with incorrect handing and even some of the phrases completely buggered up. i would rather there be correct information (charting, videos or whatever) about this available here or elsewhere than have those people whom you speak of refer to nothing but those low quality resources. i suspect any traditionalist would feel similarly. we are living in an information age where people use the internet as their primary source of information. we cannot go back in time. we have to move with the times. it has both positive aspects (how much have you learned or gained from this site?) and negative ones (e.g. low quality youtube videos and erroneous/misleading information on commercial sites).
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By Carl
#8197
Handing: yeah, at a certain point, it's just "tell me which way you want me to do it, and I will..."
I think that the "unusual" handing often has some impact on the feel, but not in every circumstance.

Public Postings: I've heard bad things about what happens to content that is free and open on the web, not just in the djembe world, but in other content dependent areas as well. I would definitely seek permission before putting anything "out there" in any case... It wouldn't be about insulting people on the web, but more respecting the people who gave the the knowledge in the first place...
[just saw bubudi's post as I was working on this. Yes I agree with what you are saying, and as I consider myself a student of Mahiri's, if he said it was OK I would do it, but I would seek permission first out of respect for our teacher/student relationship]

Bribes: Mini-Guinea? Hmmm... I doubt it, :-( the money is just not there, and I have a commitment to a mini-tour with Mahiri in the same time frame. I look forward to the day when travel gets to be less of a problem for me. Probably just after I win the megabucks... :-)

Once we do meet up, we can test out my liver against your wallet, and see what you can get out of me... :mrgreen: (wow, there are just SOOO many ways that could be taken...)

C
By bubudi
#8198
Garvin wrote:I've taught myself some of the solos off Mamady's Cd's, then video recorded and sent them to a friend who is certified to check out my handing. That's a fair way I thought to "get away with it" without having to fly to Guinea :)
no need to fly to guinea for the handing. mamady is based in san diego but regularly tours around the states and overseas. there are also his diplomaed teachers to learn from or take the certificate test with.
As devils advocate, I might ask what would be wrong with learning the solos by ear and playing the handing wrong if you are still ending up with the same feel/sound? I suppose it might have to do with developing a bad habit or something that might affect you down the road in the certificate process?
the impact of handing on feel/sound is material for another topic. please check out existing discussions in the following topics:
music-and-drumming/handing-t75.html
music-and-drumming/microtiming-t41.html
technique/roll-handing-t1178.html
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By michi
#8199
Carl wrote:I think that the "unusual" handing often has some impact on the feel, but not in every circumstance.
Yes, handing can help with feel, at least sometimes. For some phrases, using the right handing creates a different feel. For others, it makes no difference, at least not to me.
Public Postings: I've heard bad things about what happens to content that is free and open on the web, not just in the djembe world, but in other content dependent areas as well. I would definitely seek permission before putting anything "out there" in any case... It wouldn't be about insulting people on the web, but more respecting the people who gave the the knowledge in the first place...
I agree with you in that, even though it's not exactly "secret" information, it is appropriate to be respectful of your teacher and to ask permission. I would do the same.
Bribes: Mini-Guinea? Hmmm... I doubt it, :-( the money is just not there, and I have a commitment to a mini-tour with Mahiri in the same time frame. I look forward to the day when travel gets to be less of a problem for me. Probably just after I win the megabucks... :-)
Pity :( Sooner or later, we'll have to find an excuse to get together. I'll let you know if I end up near the East Coast for work. (No plans at the moment, but that can change on short notice.)
Once we do meet up, we can test out my liver against your wallet, and see what you can get out of me... :mrgreen:
The credit limit on my Visa card will probably outlast your liver :)
(wow, there are just SOOO many ways that could be taken...)
Too true. Just watch it, you might get a big surprise when we eventually meet ;)

Cheers,

Michi.
By bubudi
#8200
Carl wrote:[just saw bubudi's post as I was working on this. Yes I agree with what you are saying, and as I consider myself a student of Mahiri's, if he said it was OK I would do it, but I would seek permission first out of respect for our teacher/student relationship]
working on that level with a teacher is very much about developing a lasting relationship so yea, explain the need and then see if they're ok with it before proceeding.
Once we do meet up, we can test out my liver against your wallet, and see what you can get out of me... :mrgreen: (wow, there are just SOOO many ways that could be taken...)
a dangerous challenge! it sounds like with all the work you're doing for the test, you need every brain cell :uglynerd: having said that, my odds are on michi's ability to drink you under the table!
1. he lives in brisbane - 40°C+ summers = heavy beer drinking culture
2. germans are known to be quite partial to their beer
am i right, michi? ;)
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By michi
#8201
1. he lives in brisbane - 40°C+ summers = heavy beer drinking culture
2. germans are known to be quite partial to their beer
am i right, michi?
Too bloody true mate! :-)

Carl, let's make a pact right now: if we do meet for drinks, let's make sure we do it on an evening when we don't have to drum the following day :)

Cheers,

Michi.
By Garvin
#8267
"no need to fly to guinea for the handing. mamady is based in san diego but regularly tours around the states and overseas. there are also his diplomaed teachers to learn from or take the certificate test with."

Someday, someone will solve the problem with transmitting sarcasm in written form... I know I don't have to go to Guinea, but finding time/money to do any of this would be just as hard for me these days. I'm about 7-8 hours from Chicago, and I can't even make it there.

"the impact of handing on feel/sound is material for another topic. please check out existing discussions in the following topics:"

Thanks, I'll definitely check those out.
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By e2c
#8276
G - I feel you. The US is huge; I no more have the $$$ to fly to San Diego than I do to fly to Beijing.

People travel long, long distances (well over 1,000 miles, in many cases) to get to both Famoudou's and Mamady's workshops. I no longer have a teacher living locally, which means - at bare minimum - that I have a 3-4 hour one-way car trip ahead of me if I want to take a class with someone who is really good and/or has a TTM cert., or both.

No offense, b - it's just not as simple as it might seem at 1st blush.
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By Carl
#8277
bubudi wrote:a dangerous challenge! it sounds like with all the work you're doing for the test, you need every brain cell having said that, my odds are on michi's ability to drink you under the table!
1. he lives in brisbane - 40°C+ summers = heavy beer drinking culture
2. germans are known to be quite partial to their beer
am i right, michi?
Ah, but there is something I know that you don't know...

I'm NOT left handed!

... oops, wrong line

I'm 1/2 Irish! Should be good for at least making Michi raise his credit limit!

C

PS: Honestly though, I'm a bit of a teetotaler... at my age I usually stop at 2 guinesses (guinessi?)