Playing all alone...

[Erny]

Hi,

anybody knows this: You´d like to play a polyphone rhythm but nobody else there to support you

But there is an absolutely non traditional (and technically supported) way to do so (if you own a complete set of drums and percussion-instruments):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVswn_PjOI0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8kitnhq-z0

Enjoy,

....Erny

[michi]

Good on ya for stepping out there by yourself!

Personally, I'm not too fond of loopers because of the lack of dynamics and the difficulty of playing arrangements and breaks and varying tempo. But, as you say, if there is no-one else to play with you, it's the next-best thing

Cheers,

Michi.

[James]

I think this idea has serious potential for self improvement.

I would prefer to use something the Rhythm reference and play along with that.

[e2c]

Michael Markus' djembe practice CDs (*not* the dance practice discs, the ones for djembe) are also a very good investment.

[michi]

Michael Markus' djembe practice CDs (*not* the dance practice discs, the ones for djembe) are also a very good investment.

I have only two of these, the Tiriba one and the Djole and Liberte one. They are useful as practice material. No solos though. And, to be honest, you can save the money and use Percussion Studio to enter the rhythms and play them back at any speed you like (instead of being limited to the speeds on the CDs).

One gripe about these CDs is that the gap between the medium and top speed is too large (at least on the two CDs I have.) It jumps from 170bpm to 200bpm. No-one plays Liberte at 200bpm. (Listen to the sound clip to see how ridiculous that is.) It would have been better to make the top speed somewhat slower.

Liberte.mp3

Liberte at 200bpm, excerpt

(616.08 KiB) Downloaded 57 times

Cheers,

Michi.

[bubudi]

michi, would you really rather percussion studio's sterile reproduction of the rhythm without microtiming, swing, accent and natural variation (i.e. the elements of feel) to an authentic sounding practice track?

you could take the practice tracks from rhythm reference and pretty much any mp3 player has a built in speed control... or you can import the track into a free sound editing tool like audacity to gain total control over the speed without altering the frequency.

i think the looper in the above videos has a lot of potential for self practice in the absence of people to play with. better to loop a well played section of a rhythm than to use a sequencer. it's just too bad the guy demonstrating this tool has his wires crossed over how to play the rhythms he's doing (not to speak of his technique and bungling up the kadan break).

speaking of looping, you can take the ensemble sans solo from an instructional dvd or cd and loop that (audacity, etc). you might also be able to loop the first few seconds of your favourite track from a cd before the solo starts.

re: that liberte track, i assume that track was produced on a sequencer? the speed is very fast, but i've played liberte at nearly that speed before in bangourake's dance class (probably around 190bpm). that was an insane class!

[e2c]

The top speed for Liberte: you betcha re. dance accompaniment! Some of the folks who teach dance in the NYC area (like Youssouf Koumbassa) go for top speed when the dancers are up to (or for) it.

michi, would you really rather percussion studio's sterile reproduction of the rhythm without microtiming, swing, accent and natural variation (i.e. the elements of feel) to an authentic sounding practice track?

Indeed.

[michi]

michi, would you really rather percussion studio's sterile reproduction of the rhythm without microtiming, swing, accent and natural variation (i.e. the elements of feel) to an authentic sounding practice track?

No, and I don't think I ever said that I would. The practice CDs by Michael Markus are sterile too. (The Michael Markus CDs are also played by a sequencer.)

you could take the practice tracks from rhythm reference and pretty much any mp3 player has a built in speed control... or you can import the track into a free sound editing tool like audacity to gain total control over the speed without altering the frequency.

Sure, I'm aware of that. This is something that's beyond the computer skills of many people though.

i think the looper in the above videos has a lot of potential for self practice in the absence of people to play with. better to loop a well played section of a rhythm than to use a sequencer.

I agree with that. Although, even though I can capture some feel with a looper, it still tends to be sterile because there is no variation in sound or tempo whatsoever. But, as I said, if you don't have anyone to play with, a looper is the next-best thing.

it's just too bad the guy demonstrating this tool has his wires crossed over how to play the rhythms he's doing (not to speak of his technique and bungling up the kadan break).

Not sure that's relevant here...

speaking of looping, you can take the ensemble sans solo from an instructional dvd or cd and loop that (audacity, etc). you might also be able to loop the first few seconds of your favourite track from a cd before the solo starts.

Yes, that's another way to put practice tracks together, and definitely useful.

re: that liberte track, i assume that track was produced on a sequencer? the speed is very fast, but i've played liberte at nearly that speed before in bangourake's dance class (probably around 190bpm). that was an insane class!

Yes, that's a sequencer playing the track. My main beef isn't so much that there is a 200bpm track, but that the tracks jump from 110bpm to 170bpm to 200bpm. That means I can choose between "slow", "moderately fast", and "insane", which is not useful. Remember, these are meant to be practice CDs, and if the tempo changes between tracks are too large, that reduces the usefulness of the CD. I don't have a problem with 200bpm as such (although it is ridiculous), but there should have been something in between, say, 140bpm and 185bpm.

The top speed for Liberte: you betcha re. dance accompaniment! Some of the folks who teach dance in the NYC area (like Youssouf Koumbassa) go for top speed when the dancers are up to (or for) it.

I've played Yole and Tiriba at around 190bpm. Very fast indeed. I've on occasion played at 200bpm, but not for long. Usually, this happens only towards the end of a piece, and the speed is kept that high only for a minute or two before the piece ends.

michi, would you really rather percussion studio's sterile reproduction of the rhythm without microtiming, swing, accent and natural variation (i.e. the elements of feel) to an authentic sounding practice track?

Indeed.

As I said, no, I much prefer an authentic sounding practice track too. But the Michael Markus CDs aren't that. They sound sterile too. At least the samples they used are better quality than the ones included with Percussion Studio, so the overall sound is a little better.

Cheers,

Michi.

[e2c]

The practice CDs by Michael Markus are sterile too. (The Michael Markus CDs are also played by a sequencer.)

That's news to me. Maybe I should write to Michael and ask him to weigh in here?

(Not trying to be argumentative, but my understanding is that everything is live, albeit cleaned up for the final releases.)

As for the tempo re. Liberte, you'll have to take that up with Michael. I've found the CDs especially helpful in terms of being able to internalize tempo and timing... and I'm grateful that they're available, as there wasn't anything else quite like them (where you are taught wholly "by ear") until the debut of the new, longer Rhythm Reference cuts. I also appreciate the fact that the parts taught are different than what you can hear on other recordings and DVDs. To me, that brings home the fact that there are many different ways in which these pieces can be played, though of course these discs are a supplement to in-person lessons, not a substitute. (As with all DVDs and CDs, I think...)

Edited to add: afaik, there is info. about this (live vs. not live) in the liner notes to each disc. None of mine are handy right now, or I'd type in the relevant text. There's a pretty detailed review here: http://tcd.freehosting.net/djembemande/play.html

As for how the recordings sound, certainly it would be nice to have a richer sound (including more bass), but I think that relatively few people could afford to do that on their own, which is one thing to be said in favor of the Rhythm Reference Project recordings...

[e2c]

fwiw, M'Bemba Bangoura uses the same setup (playing the break to introduce each djembe and dunun part) on the new instructional DVDs that are being issued by Wula and Magbana Drum and Dance next month... my guess is that Michael had learned this from M'Bemba and/or some members of the Camara family who live in and around NYC.

You can check it out here (starting around 0:40 or so) -

[michi]

The practice CDs by Michael Markus are sterile too. (The Michael Markus CDs are also played by a sequencer.)

That's news to me. Maybe I should write to Michael and ask him to weigh in here?

Hmmm... I could have sworn that I read at some point that they are sequencer controlled recordings. But, having just gone to the liner notes of the two CDs I have, there is no statement about that (either positive or negative).

If I got this wrong, my apologies!!!

As for the tempo re. Liberte, you'll have to take that up with Michael.

I wasn't trying to suggest that the CDs are bad. My only gripe is with the large jumps in tempo on the two CDs I own.

I've found the CDs especially helpful in terms of being able to internalize tempo and timing... and I'm grateful that they're available, as there wasn't anything else quite like them (where you are taught wholly "by ear") until the debut of the new, longer Rhythm Reference cuts.

Agree, and I've listened to and played with the two CDs I have on many occasions.

I also appreciate the fact that the parts taught are different than what you can hear on other recordings and DVDs. To me, that brings home the fact that there are many different ways in which these pieces can be played, though of course these discs are a supplement to in-person lessons, not a substitute. (As with all DVDs and CDs, I think...)

Yes. I hadn't come across the Tiriba 1 version before I bought the CD, and the djembe accompaniment for Djole is slightly different on the CD from I'd learned previously as well.

Edited to add: afaik, there is info. about this (live vs. not live) in the liner notes to each disc. None of mine are handy right now, or I'd type in the relevant text. There's a pretty detailed review here: http://tcd.freehosting.net/djembemande/play.html

As I said, if I'm wrong about the sequencer (as implied by the review), my apologies, and kudos to the musicians for playing to such a degree of precision!

As for how the recordings sound, certainly it would be nice to have a richer sound (including more bass), but I think that relatively few people could afford to do that on their own, which is one thing to be said in favor of the Rhythm Reference Project recordings...

I think the sound is plenty good enough for a practice CD.

BTW, what are these longer Rhythm Reference Project recordings? I have the three MP3 albums, but all the tracks on those are short. Are there new recordings with longer play-along tracks now?

Cheers,

Michi.

[e2c]

As I said, if I'm wrong about the sequencer (as implied by the review), my apologies, and kudos to the musicians for playing to such a degree of precision!

De nada...

now I have to dig up my CDs and re-check, because I don't want to passing on the wrong info., either!

Edited to add: the jury's still out on this one; there isn't anything about this in the liners that I checked, so clearly, I'm misremembering something.

Rhythm Reference: yes, they have some new material out, and more is coming - long practice tracks, among other things.

See http://www.rhythmreference.com/pages/loops.htm

*
Edited to add - excerpt from the review I linked to above, by Michael Wall -

Using the Kassa disc as an example, each complete rhythm arrangement is explored over 12 tracks. The format is organized so that each segment can be can be looped individually. The demonstration tempo is an easily grasped 95 BPM, and each example is repeated 4 times, staying in time. Careful listening and basic skills will allow you to take immediate advantage of learning from these CDs. All drums are live (no drum machines or midi samples!) Following is the basic structure each rhythm is presented in, one track at a time:

[bubudi]

just a little warning on electronic looping and tempo shifting... by taking a percussion track and significantly increasing the tempo there is a danger, because when rhythms are physically played on drums the swing naturally changes at higher tempos. an electronic tempo shift does not account for this. also, there should be a more pronounced swing in the slower tempos, so this applies even more for slowing the rhythm down electronically. if you are playing malian rhythms where the drum patterms change at higher tempos, well, it would probably be impossible to do anything close to justice...

the looper in the video, however, does the looping, volume and speed control on the fly and that's something that you'd need specialist software to do (am sure it exists!). that makes it more useful, but still limited.

overall, still a very good tool for developing solos for someone who is taking regular lessons and playing regularly with others. and for someone who is playing alone all the time, it's better than nothing, but be aware of the limitations and dangers.

that's good news about the new practice tracks on rhythm reference project.

interestingly, i notice michael's practice cds are no longer on the magbana website.

[Waraba]

In the meantime, you can also put on some James Brown and play along to that.

[e2c]

by taking a percussion track and significantly increasing the tempo there is a danger, because when rhythms are physically played on drums the swing naturally changes at higher tempos. an electronic tempo shift does not account for this. also, there should be a more pronounced swing in the slower tempos, so this applies even more for slowing the rhythm down electronically. if you are playing malian rhythms where the drum patterms change at higher tempos, well, it would probably be impossible to do anything close to justice...

Which is one reason I'm convinced that Michael Markus' CDs were done live. The feel is right at all tempos - if it wasn't, his dance practice CDs (which have the same rhythms as the djembe practice discs, minus the slow-medium tempo practice tracks) would be worthless.