Homework

[James]

I think we should knock the crap djembe videos down on youtube.

When people search for djembe, they should find videos that reflect what djembe music is really about, instead of the shite, that's there now.

So, I suggest....

We all go and thumbs down these from the top 10 results when searching for djembe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFh0UXH5uM4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWyOh-hv1Rs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa1_e_tqm6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrZ6IVbI3SY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IPoTsqoujM

Thumbs up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGcmISu96FA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RU11gIsmzs

I'm not linking to them because it might give them even better rankings

Give me homework please

[e2c]

Edit: Never mind! Link to Baba's vid is gone.

Err James... that 1st link you posted shows Nigerian drummer Babatunde Olatunji.

Whether you like the vid or not, he was/is very famous and had all kinds of influence (here in the States and in Europe, too) in terms of getting different kinds of African drums and drum/percussion music into the mainstream.

While I find that particular video to be a bit painful, he was a very good performer and his recordings - especially Drums of Passion (issued in 1959) - are important!

I think saying he's not good is kinda like saying the early djembe guys who came to the US (Papa Ladji Camara, for example) weren't good. Not.

http://www.olatunjimusic.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babatunde_Olatunji - really good bio. entry.

Here's a cut from the album mentioned above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41p2a0zqMMY

and another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYhFyF8dvU4

Here's Santana's version (from 1969) of the piece above. It was a hit - probably my 1st exposure to a song from W. Africa, though I thought it was "Latin" at the time - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACw2RIVZvZw

[e2c]

One other point:

I feel uncomfortable with the way many of us tend to knock non-traditional players and not-so-trad. instruments.

Last week, a member posted in another thread about how Remo djembes have been adapted into some kinds of Brazilian music. And about how the people down there play with a conga-like technique, which actually works quite well on Remo drums.

While I might not hold with guys like Jim Donovan, the truth is that he and others do have a substantial following; also that they're off doing something that's quite separate from hardcore African dance and drum.

Donovan is typical of many of the "teachers" here in the US, especially from back in the mid-late 80s-on into the 90s. At that time, there were very few Africans here from the "djembe countries," and those who were teaching were mainly working with African American troupes. (Still true today for many of the "old timers.")

We didn't start getting an influx of teachers from the "djembe countries" here until the early-mid 90s, and there still aren't many of them around.

While i understand your feelings re. the genuinely bad vids on YouTube, I also think that some of these folks really *are* trying to play the best they know how... likely they've had little-no exposure to authentic African dance/drum and/or showed up at a class or workshop with a Remo drum and weren't welcome. (Check dununbabe's story of how she was actually welcomed by people who *did* know the music, back when she was playing a Remo and thought she knew a good number of djembe rhythms... )

So... maybe people should try and cut folks a break?

Just my .02-worth...

[freefeet]

I feel uncomfortable with the way many of us tend to knock non-traditional players and not-so-trad. instruments.

A lot of the time it's the non-trad players that actually provide a gate-way into the traditions for others.

Hearing a traditional instrument being played badly by a busker has inspired many a person to look further into that instrument to find out about its history, suddenly a whole new musical world is opened up that was never there before. That was certainly the case for me.

And good contemporary playing can be just as exciting as good traditional playing.

Another issue is that a lot of people can feel intimidated by traditionalists when first buying an instrument. Contemporary playing can allow a lot of people that first step of confidence from which they begin to walk into a more traditional musical environment.

[e2c]

A lot of the time it's the non-trad players that actually provide a gate-way into the traditions for others.

Hearing a traditional instrument being played badly by a busker has inspired many a person to look further into that instrument to find out about its history, suddenly a whole new musical world is opened up that was never there before. That was certainly the case for me.

And good contemporary playing can be just as exciting as good traditional playing.

Another issue is that a lot of people can feel intimidated by traditionalists when first buying an instrument. Contemporary playing can allow a lot of people that first step of confidence from which they begin to walk into a more traditional musical environment.

Amen and amen.

The 1st djembe I heard and saw wasn't made out of wood. I thought it sounded awful, but I also knew it was a Remo copy of an actual African drum.

There are some great jazz sax players who, at times, played plastic instruments. (Not joking: Ornette Coleman is one.) No, they don't sound like metal saxes, but ... why not give 'em a try?

Further... Babatunde Olatunji spent many years doing school programs, introducing people to music from his part of Africa along with his own mash-ups (so to speak). He reached a lot of young people that way!

[James]

thanks for the clips, I enjoyed that.

I do know of Baba.

I pasted links here on the basis on not being what should be returned the search "djembe" on youtube.

I still think he shouldn't rank ahead of some of the great videos out there regardless on his contribution. As such I am satisfied with my thumbs down.

Fair enough I guess my strategy was funda mentally flawed if we push a good video down, just because someone thinks it shouldn't rank for a term. Perhaps this is a short coming in youtubes ability to deliver relevent videos for searches (depending on how heavily they rely on thumbs as an indicator).

I'm sure there are terms it should rank for though, so I have removed that link.

Perhaps only bad videos should be pushed down, but that begs the question what is a bad video, which is (I think) the point you're trying to make.

The fact is there are really crappy videos that I will continue to vote down (as I vote good videos up)....and everyone has to make up their own minds. My aim isn't so much to encourage people to vote certain videos up or down, but to point out that we have that power and we should exercise it.

There are companies out there like expert village which pay money to push they bad videos up, at the expense of quality authentic videos. I disagree with you about protecting people who are teaching djembe in a poor manner and I have no qualms about doing what I can about it. Perhaps this should be a seperate thread if you really want to dicuss this (it could be interesting).

Anyway, maybe this thread is better suited as a bad videos thread... Where people can decide for themselves whether they want to like a video or not.

[e2c]

I don't think people should be protected, though... it's more like this: there are different groups of people out there who play either real or fake djembes for different reasons.

Djembes are now what bongos were back in the 50s and 60s - they're everywhere.

And... I'm not sure that we make friends for hardcore African drum/dance by knocking the ... how can I say this? Poor videos, poor playing.

Though obviously, how anyone rates a YouTube vid is a personal choice, and I'm not saying "Don't give it a thumbs down."

There is so much of a pile-on in so many YouTube comments that I personally like to steer clear of the negativity.

I punched "djembe" into the Tube's search engine last night and got several good vids on the 1st page of search results. So hey... vote 'em up!

As for ExpertVillage, they have a *lot* of bad vids. (Not exclusive to djembe.)

[michi]

So, I suggest....

We all go and thumbs down these from the top 10 results when searching for djembe:

I had a look at these and I agree: they are seriously dreadful and inept. I don't mind voting them down. After all, the feedback mechanism on YouTube exists to allow people to express whether they like or dislike something (for whatever reason).

Will it make a difference? I doubt it. YouTube plays host to a large number of self-proclaimed experts in all sorts of fields. Almost inevitably, they are people who seriously lack self-insight...

BTW, you might also want to check out this thread, with similar concerns expressed there. And, if you have not seen it yet, do look at the energy transfer technique video. It is priceless

Cheers,

Michi.

[e2c]

Remember when Amazon.com experienced a glitch a few years back - one that made all the commenters' real names visible?

I suspect there would be some red faces if that happened on YouTube. (People going by multiple usernames to promote their own stuff and suchlike.)

[michi]

I suspect there would be some red faces if that happened on YouTube. (People going by multiple usernames to promote their own stuff and suchlike.)

Most certainly

I've always commented under my own name on YouTube. I figure that, if I have something to say and I'm afraid of putting my name to it, there is something fishy going on...

Cheers,

Michi.

[e2c]

A few years ago, someone made a very bad-sounding Remo djembe + conga video and then proceeded to spam just about anyone who had ever commented on a djembe video, trying to get people to giver her vid a thumbs up.

I suspect that at least one of the rave comments on her vid was made by her.