Roll Handing

[Carl]

Picking up from the discussion in the Social thread...
Here's a situation where ambidextrous handing comes in VERY handy! (pun intened...)

timing: 9/8

roll ex.tiff (13 KiB) Viewed 789 times

[note: you need to play both lines before repeating! Watch the handing!!!]

Famoudou gave this out when he was in Portland, ME on his last trip.

Very few people were abel to hold it together.

I didn't even realize that I was switching my handing until I tried to show it to one of the guy's in the band a week ago. (Famoudou did show the handing change, but I completely forgot about it after the class. Needless to say, my band mate got completely confused when I didn't know what he was talking about... "what handing change?")



C

PS: edited to add link to other thread... Thanks, Bubudi!

[bubudi]

we all need to get a good footing on all this handing

roll ex.tiff

rolex?

[Carl]

we all need to get a good footing on all this handing

Yeah, it took me a while to put my finger on the problem...

roll ex.tiff

rolex?

How else did you think I was able to keep time on this technique?

C
[Someone really needs to stop me now... ]

[michi]

That's a nice echauffement. Not that hard actually, after a bit of practice.

These left-right alternating exercises are great for developing independence and evening out rolls. Here is one of my favourite warm-up exercises for my students:

Roll exercise

rolls.jpg (23.35 KiB) Viewed 730 times

There are lots of variations on that kind of thing. Here is the first accompaniment for Yole:

Yole accompaniment

yole1.jpg (6.01 KiB) Viewed 730 times

As an exercise, you can add a pick-up base to the pattern, and maintain the hand-over-hand play, so you end up with the right and left hand leading on alternate cycles. That's another exercise I like to do with my students to develop left-right independence.

Yole exercise

yole2.jpg (13.35 KiB) Viewed 730 times

Cheers,

Michi.

[Carl]

There are lots of variations on that kind of thing. Here is the first accompaniment for Yole:

Interesting. Where did you get the handing for this? (Yole) So far I have found that when the handing isn't "hand over hand" there has been some sort of feel change that makes the handing make sense.

Is there something in the feeling that isn't in the notation? (beyond the usual 4/4 feel)

C

[michi]

Interesting. Where did you get the handing for this? (Yole)

That's the handing a number of my teachers use, including Mohamed Bangoura and Lansana Camara. It's the handing I've always used.

So far I have found that when the handing isn't "hand over hand" there has been some sort of feel change that makes the handing make sense.

I guess we need to clarify terminology here. When I say "hand over hand", I mean playing alternating left-right without regard to where the notes fall on the bar, so no hand ever doubles up. In contrast, playing with the handing that emerges when I mentally play all the eighth notes and use whichever hand coincides with the placement of a note in the bar, I call that "playing on the ghosting". (Is there another more accepted terminology for this?

Here is an alternative handing for that hand part. (That's what I would call "playing on the ghosting".) Is that what you meant?

Yole alternative handing

yole3.jpg (6.59 KiB) Viewed 714 times

I don't play that handing because, as things get really fast, I find it easier to play strictly right-left, without doubling up.

Is there something in the feeling that isn't in the notation? (beyond the usual 4/4 feel).

What the notation doesn't capture is the swing of the first four slaps that start the pattern. But that's not really what I was on about here--this was just meant to be an example of another exercise people can do to improve left-right independence.

Cheers,

Michii.

[Carl]

I guess we need to clarify terminology here. When I say "hand over hand", I mean playing alternating left-right without regard to where the notes fall on the bar, so no hand ever doubles up. In contrast, playing with the handing that emerges when I mentally play all the eighth notes and use whichever hand coincides with the placement of a note in the bar, I call that "playing on the ghosting". (Is there another more accepted terminology for this?

Yes I see now. I haven't heard any terminology for what you are calling "hand over hand". However what you call "ghosting" I've heard called...

Playing out of the roll
circular handing (don't ask me how this works?)
Handing Logic (said as "traditional handing logic")
Traditional handing (with the caveat that it does not always work this way)

Not sure what others have heard.

I meant no criticism of your example. I have a keen interest in handing issues and I was wondering about the handing/feel relationship. that is all.

C

[michi]

From memory, I got the "hand over hand" terminology from Secrets of the Hand. (Not 100% sure though--I can check when I get home from the office.) The "playing on the ghosting" terminology I made up myself. I hadn't come across the other terms you mentioned for this before, thanks!

Apparently, some people call the strict left-right handing "walking hands."

I tend to play on the ghosting unless one hand gets grossly overworked that way. (I find it easiest to keep time if the down-and up-beats stay on my dominant hand, and the off-beats are on my non-dominant (left) hand.) If I find I overwork one hand, I switch to hand-over-hand. For some patterns, neither seems to work for me, and I end up with a strange mix of the two, where I do double up at places, but I'm not on on the ghosting for all of the pattern either.

Cheers,

Michi.

[Carl]

Way back in High School (many many years ago) I was introduced to the "ghost handing" for snare drum. I don't have a reference except that it came from my teacher. but she called it "strict handing".

So far, I've been able to keep with the strict handing in all but the fastest settings that I've run across. But then again I rarely play for dance classes...

C

[michi]

there's probably no definitive terminology, but handing was discussed in this thread.

OK, thanks for that! I like the term "alternate handing" for the strict left-right pattern, and "hand-over-hand" apparently means what I called "playing on the ghosting". BTW, "Secrets of the Hand" calls that "on-off style". I live and learn...

Cheers,

Michi.

[Dennis103]

I use 'alternate handing' to indicate playing the next note with the other hand, irrespective of the time between notes. I use 'strict handing' to mean play all uneven pulses with right, and all even pulses with left (discounting rolls which switch left/right of course). Strict because this way will result in stricter 'on the beat' playing, since the arms will keep a continuous even motion with no slowing down or speeding up.

For exercises I often try patterns with rolls left-handed, combinations of left and right handed pattern and/or roll, also to have the roll start on the beat or end on the beat etc. Take any basic pattern and insert a roll:
s . . s | s . t t | will become s . . s | s . ttt | and then continue left-handed s . . s | s . ttt | and then right-handed again etc.

[Carl]

My current favorite roll pattern.

6/8
1 . . 2 . .
ttt s . s s
rlr l . r l

Has nothing to do with the handing issue, but it came to mind. (plus I'm slacking off at work and I'm not putting much thought into things...)



C

[Dennis103]

Roll Carl?

[Carl]

Roll Carl?

Owch... especially considering that my mom's Massachussets accent looses the 'r' in my name...

Caal