Thin cow skin or thick goat skin

[Djembe-nerd]

So what do you think of these sizes, are they large or medium.

Mali djembe - 12.75"
Iroko djembe - 13.75"
Guniea djembe - 13.25"

[michi]

So what do you think of these sizes, are they large or medium.

Well, that's a matter of opinion, to some extent... I'm assuming that your measurements are outside measurements, excluding rings. In that case, I'd say:

Mali djembe - 12.75"

Small.

Iroko djembe - 13.75"

Medium, bordering on large. (I'd call anything above 14" "large".)

Guniea djembe - 13.25"

Medium.

Cheers,

Michi.

[Djembe-nerd]

Yes these are dimensions without the rings. The Mali is actually 13".

So if we consider these medium size djembes, then I see these sizes common everywhere with the reputed djembe suppliers, and being marketed as solo capable djembes. I would assume a lot has to do with the skin, shell and tuning, but the bigger sizes are less to be seen.

I would say then that these sizes are good sizes for lead djembes, now the question is are these by statistics, by experience or by demand.

[michi]

I would say then that these sizes are good sizes for lead djembes, now the question is are these by statistics, by experience or by demand.

I have seen lead djembes of all sizes, from tiny to gigantic. It depends on the preference of the player and, just because a drum is small doesn't mean that it can't be played as a solo djembe. You can compensate a lot for lack of volume by higher pitch.

Not all small drums are quiet--some can be surprisingly loud. It's just that, on average, larger shells are louder and therefore often preferred as solo drums (up to a point--too large, and it gets too hard to get the pitch high enough). Besides the size of the shell, many other factors influence sound. The shape and proportions, the type of wood, the way the inside has been carved, the type of skin, the skill of the player... All these things contribute as well, so there is a huge amount of variation. Some drums simply sound good and make for a good solo drum, regardless of their size.

I don't think there are any absolutes here. The fact that most djembes are in the 13" range is probably due to the fact that this size is comfortable to play for just about anyone, whether they are small or large, and that medium-size djembes can be tuned to fit virtually any purpose, from bass to lead drum. Larger drums are rarer mainly because it gets more difficult to find a tree large enough to carve them out of. And smaller ones are less popular because they are not as loud and not suitable for people with large hands.

So, I'd say that the 13" average/median is probably due to a combination of both supply and demand and personal preference. Trees for 13" djembes are easier to find than for 14" djembes, and most players like the 13" size.

Cheers,

Michi.

[Dugafola]

I haven't seen Mamady or Famoudou play on cow skin.

mamady alwasy plays on the white spotted goat skin, I don't know about Famoudou.

So is this cow skin sound is a new generation thing in West Africa.

Famoudou plays almost exclusively on antelope or a light calf skin these days.

[bubudi]

light calf, really? i would have thought goat/antelope is more famoudou's kind of sound.

my understanding is antelope skin is softer than goat.

[Dugafola]

light calf, really? i would have thought goat/antelope is more famoudou's kind of sound.

my understanding is antelope skin is softer than goat.

really. on his 2006 US tour, he was playing a calf skin on a hare shell. 2008 he was rocking an antelope on a big djalla. this past spring he had his 2006 drum with the same skin and then another big ass lenke with a calf skin.

i don't know about antelop being softer than goat...maybe if you tune it really low on a big drum a la FK. i've hit some antelope that definitely bit back. it's probably skin to skin.

i'm hoping Bolo can bring me back a biggish antelope from the village.

[Djembe-nerd]

Bops wrote:

You have to adjust your technique a bit to get a really good sound on cow.

Please elaborate on this to have an idea.

[rachelnguyen]

You know, I have found it to be the exact opposite, Bops. I have been playing a goatskin all this time, and when I first started fooling around with my teachers cow, it was like I had entered a whole new world. The thing was incredibly responsive. He has his cowskins tuned VERY high and I discovered that I could hear a much more subtle range of sounds than on my goat, which is tuned down a notch. My newest goatskin is a thin skin and it is very sharp sounding... but still a bit muddier than the cows.

It is true that cowskin is harder on your hands.... but I just got a couple of cowskin rounds from Shorty at goatskins.com called kip. They are south american... and pretty thin. (One was so thin I actually sent it back because I was afraid it would break.)

Sidy just put one on my drum and we haven't tuned it up yet, but I think the thinner cow will be a bit easier on my hands than the big thick ones Sidy has. It seems like very nice stuff.

[rachelnguyen]

PS: The other nice thing about a thin cowskin is that you don't have to resize the rings. These are the same rings I had on there with the goat.....

[Carl]

Just put a cowskin on a drum, it's an American made lathe turned drum, one piece of wood, but way too smooth inside. (an old "Paulo" skin it - tune it - play it drum if you know what they are...)

Lessons learned:

Calf skin does not stretch as much as goat... my rings are WAY too high! (and I like them high)
Calf skin is also thicker than goat, therefore I had a hell of a time getting the rings to move down (the rings were tight to begin with, probably would have been perfect with goat...)

Calf skin is hard, which makes for an interesting playing experience, definitely feels strange compared to goat.

An interesting observation:
Since this is on a lathe turned drum, and it is cranked, the sound is very "clear and open" meaning less of the thick harmonics that you get from the scalloped interior of a carved drum. I compare it to the difference between a classical flute and a classical clarinet. It is just shy of being "pingy" and was in fact a bit pingy before being played in. At the moment it makes me think of glass instruments (not usually an association that I make with percussion instruments....)

I'm hoping to play it for a while, then take out some diamonds to get it down to the pitch that I want. However I really need to wait till the rings drop a bit more....

[wonderwebb]

I got gibby to to a demo of both drums being played his goat skin was really thick and sounded really similar have a listen i was suprised when he played them .

To be honest i was suprised by the goat skin sounding the way it did

[e2c]

Nice! I really like the sound of both skins, but you can hear the difference (high ringing overtones from the goatskin) pretty clearly.

I'm wanting a peau de vache skinned drum. (anyone know the French word for "calf"? That's what i'd go for...)

You know, I have found it to be the exact opposite, Bops. I have been playing a goatskin all this time, and when I first started fooling around with my teachers cow, it was like I had entered a whole new world. The thing was incredibly responsive. He has his cowskins tuned VERY high and I discovered that I could hear a much more subtle range of sounds than on my goat, which is tuned down a notch.

Agreed - I hear that with cow and calf. Even have a frame drum with a lovely thin calfskin on it, and it has great warmth and a very different feel to goat. (I love both; but I'm wanting more of that calf sound...)

Rachel, as for your drum with the goatskin, I wonder if it's just that particular skin? Another one might make a lot of difference, I'm thinking.

[rachelnguyen]

To me, the goatskin has a more metallic sound... and higher pitch. The cow has sort of a richer undertone going on.

Both, though, sound great. I love how he varies the volume of his playing. It is really dynamic.

Nice video!

[rachelnguyen]

calf=veau.