Please see my Lark knots, *Nube alert*

[Jay]

I have the top ring with 30 loops. (about 16 inch drum)
I have them spaced out pretty evenly.
I want this to have lots of "Rope" and diamonds.
I want this to be absolutely perfect! I spent so much cash on the parts and its a special thing to me.

From the photo, please answer some questions please.

1. Spaced out?
2. 30 loops?
3. Perfect?

And the final question, can I do a drum with one single rope or will I need to cut?
4. Do I cut and how much to I keep extra?
5. May I extend the rope and start the bottom ring? (Continuous)

Thanks again,

1.jpg

[michi]

1. Spaced out?

Looks pretty even to me.

2. 30 loops?

Spacing looks good to me. 30 is a good number for a largish djembe. By the looks of things, that's what you have.

3. Perfect?

With the single-hitch knots you are using, it's important to make them as tight as possible from the beginning, otherwise they have a tendency to shift a little when you start tightening the verticals. So, just make sure that you have the maximum amount of tension you can apply. Also, with these knots, you may want to pre-stretch the rope, to reduce the amount of creep and stretch when you apply tension.

And the final question, can I do a drum with one single rope or will I need to cut?
4. Do I cut and how much to I keep extra?
5. May I extend the rope and start the bottom ring? (Continuous)

I would recommend against using a single length of rope for both top and bottom ring. If you do, you will have a length of rope that is loose between the two rings, which will have to go somewhere once the drum is finished; the extra bit of rope will look messy. You are better off using separate lengths of rope for the top and bottom ring.

To get a neat finish, you can use the technique shown here if you like.

To figure out how much rope to cut for the verticals, measure the distance between the top and bottom ring, multiple by the number of loops (30) times 2, and add about 4m. That will leave enough rope over for the weave. If in doubt, add an extra meter or two. The extra rope costs almost nothing and, if you find that you have too much rope left over, you can always cut some off later. Next time you redo the drum, you can use the old rope as a measure for how much to cut off for the new one.

Cheers,

Michi.

[Jay]

Ok, then Im cutting off the larger ring.
To join and tie down the two ends of rope on the larger ring I do a square knot?

Thanks!!!!

[michi]

Ok, then Im cutting off the larger ring.
To join and tie down the two ends of rope on the larger ring I do a square knot?

I've seen single-hitch rings tied off with a square knot in the middle of a loop. It may be difficult to stop that one loop from being looser than the other ones though. You may need to pre-stretch that loop with a temporary bit of rope and then redistribute any slack over a few loops to the left and right.

Instead of square knot in the middle of a loop, you could also try the technique shown here.

Cheers,

Michi.

[Jay]

lol, single-hitch rings.
I see my drum book shows with a double hitch!
I did it that way and ran out of rope.

What do "Pro" drums have? Two rounds on the loop thingy?
Sorry I cant even say the terminology.

[michi]

What do "Pro" drums have? Two rounds on the loop thingy?

It's a matter of preference. People tend to use single-hitch loops on the bottom ring if the bottom rings is small and it gets too crowded to accommodate double-hitch loops. If you have enough room, I'd recommend double-hitch. Otherwise, make it single hitch--either works.

Cheers,

Michi.

[Jay]

I ran out of rope so Im thinking of single on bottom and double on top.

Also the ring with the rope does not go over the drum so well.
The "Naked ring" goes on fine (And would slip far down)

The drum its self and ring are strange shaped.
How can I force the ring on?

The drum its self is an amazing black heavy, HUGE drum but its one of these drums that are not shipped with a great skin, cheap rope and all.

After I put the expensive rope its pretty much tight on the top!
Assuming to much force would crack the drum?

Rubber mallet?

Thanks for letting a noob post on the web site.

[michi]

Also the ring with the rope does not go over the drum so well.
The "Naked ring" goes on fine (And would slip far down)

The drum its self and ring are strange shaped.
How can I force the ring on?

For one, take the two top rings and find the best fit for each ring. Take each ring and hold it around the bearing edge. Rotate the ring until you find the best match of the ring to the shell, with the gap between shell and ring as even all the way around as possible. Flip the ring over and try from both sides to find the best fit. Mark the shell and rings, so you know which bit goes where.

Also, you need to determine where you want to play the drum. Most drums are slightly oval- or triangle-shaped. I usually orient the shell such that I'm playing the widest part, so my hands get as much space as possible. So, if the shell has a triangle shape, point the widest base of the triangle towards your navel; if it is oval-shaped, point the widest part of the oval towards your navel.

You may find that one ring is a little bit larger than the other. If so, and you have a narrow gap, use the larger ring as the crown ring and the smaller ring as the flesh ring. That way, you give yourself a bit more room for the loops.

If you cannot push the crown ring with the rope on it with bare hands at least 5cm below the bearing edge, you will either have to use thinner rope for the loops on the crown ring, or get the ring re-welded to make it slightly larger. If the ring is too small, and you cannot force it down over the shell by hand (without a mallet), there is a good chance that you will tear the skin where one of the loops on the ring contacts the shell, because the skin gets squashed between the shell and knots. You don't need to have a gap as such, because both rope and skin will compress somewhat. But, if you have to use a mallet to hammer the crown ring over the shell without a skin, it's too small (or the rope for the loops is too thick).

Tight rings are Good Thing (TM), but you don't want them too tight.

After I put the expensive rope its pretty much tight on the top!
Assuming to much force would crack the drum?

That can happen but, usually, you will tear the skin before you will crack the drum.

Cheers,

Michi.

[Jay]

I got the ring on by pushing it hard. Then the ropes pulled it down farther.
I then streached the ropes a but.

The skin is in the bath tub soaking.
I guess Ill try.

Assuming a ring that goes on with hand pushing and force wont rip a skin?
Its dang tight down there with plenty of "Lip" or barring ring to play comfortably.

[michi]

I got the ring on by pushing it hard.

Good!

Assuming a ring that goes on with hand pushing and force wont rip a skin?

I've never come across a drum where I could push down the crown ring by hand and then have it rip a skin, so I'd say you'll be OK.

Its dang tight down there with plenty of "Lip" or barring ring to play comfortably.

If you can get the crown ring 5cm below the bearing edge, you'll be fine. If it won't come down as far as that, I'd do something about it before fitting the skin.

Cheers,

Michi.

[Jay]

Michi! I did it!
WOW!
One thing to note, the rings went on and I had to do the "Bench puller" with a hand tool and MAN did it ever go on. Its tight and the top rings look pretty good and even!

I did a second round of rope pulling and getting slack out.

1. Can I do the finishing up of the final knots on the extra rope in 3 days?
I just kind of knotted them up so I could go grab a pint to celebrate and blow off steam.
2. I taped the excess skin over the rope to cover it. (I like it that look)
3. Can I shave it next week? I dont have a skinning knife and thats what we used in the "Old days"
4. My bottom ring is "Cocked" up one side. (Can I make that better when skin is dry?) Its not noticeable.

From my noob learning it appears the rings are what are keeping the skin tight and the rope is there but not as important as the really tight rings.
I was afraid to tighten any more.
I could get some more slack out but Its on there so good I was thinking just better walk away.

"A work of art is never finished, only abandoned"
Thanks for everything, I dont expect it to be perfect my first time.

[bubudi]

jay, very nice job for your first time. i assume from the top picture that you're not going to leave a skin flap (you don't have enough excess skin all the way around). i don't know if anyone's mentioned it to you, but it's easiest to cut the skin above the top ring when the skin is still quite wet. you can still do it dry, though.

you need to shave the skin too. don't worry about the skin along the side of the bearing edge. just shave the playing surface. then sand down any stubble left over with very fine grain sandpaper.

while it's the top rings that hold the ring in place, they do slip and it is the rope between the crown and bottom rings that keep them in place through constant tension. once the skin is dry you will want to get that tension quite high. you will need some sort of puller to get adequate tension in the verticals. don't be afraid to break the skin. go for the sound you like. you should be able to achieve that sound without doing any mali weave, just by adequate tension on the verticals. there is a small amount of stretch in new rope, so after several days you will need to re-evaluate the sound and see whether it needs a bit of extra tension (mali weave) or a lot (re-stretch the verticals).

[michi]

Michi! I did it!

Congratulations!

One thing to note, the rings went on and I had to do the "Bench puller" with a hand tool and MAN did it ever go on. Its tight and the top rings look pretty good and even!

Yes, it looks like you have a level ring at the top, which is good. Suggestion for next time: don't set the rings quite as low as you did on the wet pull. Instead, set the rings such that the top of the knots is just below the bearing edge, may 1-2mm. The rings will come down during the dry pull, as the skin stretches. Not a big deal though--I think you'll be OK with it as is.

1. Can I do the finishing up of the final knots on the extra rope in 3 days?

It depends on the weather. You need need to give the skin enough time to dry completely, especially inside the gap between the two rings and where it is trapped between the shell and the rings. That takes some time, especially when you leave the hair on (because that restricts airflow). With a shaved skin, I normally leave it three days, but that's in Queensland weather, with plenty of sunshine. If it's humid, I sometimes wait five or more days.

You need to play it by ear. If it's nice and dry and warm, I'd give it a minimum of three days. Otherwise, wait longer. Any loose skin flaps should be hard as wood. Once they get to that point, wait another two days or so for the skin that is trapped between the rings to dry.

Don't try and do the dry pull if the skin isn't completely dry yet. It will tear where it is trapped between the crown ring and the flesh ring.

2. I taped the excess skin over the rope to cover it. (I like it that look)

You don't have enough excess skin on one side, so it will come out uneven. You might get a tidier look by trimming the skin flap off.

3. Can I shave it next week? I dont have a skinning knife and thats what we used in the "Old days"

I see no reason why you couldn't shave it now, provided that the skin is reasonably well stretched. In fact, shaving while the skin is still moist is easier than shaving it dry.

4. My bottom ring is "Cocked" up one side. (Can I make that better when skin is dry?) Its not noticeable.

Yes, you can. Just wait until the entire show is dry. Loosen the verticals all around a little, and re-center the bottom ring. Then take the slack out slowly and evenly around the perimeter. You will have to go around several times, tightening a little each time, while keeping the bottom ring centered all the time. Before starting the proper dry pull, you should have the verticals as tight as you can make them with bare hands.

From my noob learning it appears the rings are what are keeping the skin tight and the rope is there but not as important as the really tight rings.

No, not really. The rings trap the skin in place. The tension comes from shortening the verticals when you start weaving.

One more thing... You have fed the verticals through the loops instead of around the knots.

2.jpg

Normally, the verticals go around the knots as in these images:

IMG_1907.JPG.jpeg

IMG_1905.JPG.jpeg

What you did will work but be aware that, by feeding the rope through the loops, you put a lot more friction on the rope because the contact area between the vertical rope and the loops is very small. So, you'll get lots of wear that way, and the rope will not last as long. For the next drum you do, I'd recommend to use the conventional way to lace up the verticals.

Thanks for everything, I dont expect it to be perfect my first time.

No, don't. I've been doing this for years, and I'm still learning!

Cheers,

Michi.

[Jay]

Thanks for all the info.

One thing is the short part of the skin you said cant pull over, well it pulls over at least an inch over the rings. Is that enough? I think perhaps in the photo the extra skin is bent under!

The extra skin completely covers up the rings and rope!

I guess Ill go cut it now?

[bubudi]

jay, if the shortest part of the skin hangs down at least to cover the loops under the top ring, it will be alright. otherwise i would trim above the top ring.

if you're going to have overhang, tie a piece of rope tightly around it, just under where the loops are on the top ring. this will pull the overhang snug to the ropes. let it dry that way before trimming.

if it's cold/damp where you are, give the skin at least a week to dry before doing the dry pull. i would even shave it now to accelerate the overall drying time of the skin.