Lacing rope

[cymreig47]

Starting off I am new here (first post) and I don't want to get off on the wrong foot by introducing the following topic. I AM serious in regards to this matter:

Managed to find myself in the company of a guy with a "No cost is too much" attitude. He was bragging about the price he paid to have one of his many djembes reheaded recently. Then he made a comment on the "cheap, lack of quality rope" on one og my African talking drums.

I replied that his drum did in fact sound very good, BUT that he had faiuled to noticed that I had usedtop-quality utility rope made locally and it had a rating of 600 pounds (vs the cheap 60/125 pound rope found at Wal-Mart, etc.).

He still insisted that it wasn't the "Alpine rope" quality as found on his drum. So I asked him a VRY pointed question:

FACT: My African talking drum came with TWISTED RAW HIDE, the SAME material found on native djembes. Why should I pay $US.37/foot for climbing rope when I cane obtain 600 pound braided rayon (or is it nylon?) NON-STRETCH rope locally at $US8.00 and help keep some locals employed?

Translation, WHY has it become the common pratice to use "Alpine rope" (and some drums I have seen do not have real "Alpine rope", they had plaid, speckled braided rope that LOOKS like climbing rope but the idiot that bought the drum didn't know!).

It seems to have come down to an ego trip around here, "I have out spent you". As I said, currently I have home-made talking drums (I have the required trade experience to apply to drum fabrication) and have no problems with my rope. But I want to find out if it is my logic (about the rope quality) that is faulty before building a djembe.

I come in peace, in no way do I mean to offend.

[rachelnguyen]

Hi Cymreig,

Welcome to the forum.

I honestly don't think you would find west africans fretting about the type of rope on their djembes as long as it doesn't stretch and is strong enough to handle being pulled. The djembe I bought in Mali belonged to one of my teachers, a griot named Mazé Kouyaté. His drum was roped with standard poly core with a nylon sheath. (At least I think that's what it was.) It was big and fat... green with black speckles. Basically standard issue rope, LOL. But the drum was pulled tight with it and sang beautifully.

I replaced it the the fancy stuff when I got home because I wanted a less bulky rope. But the fancy stuff really wasn't any better for the actual function... and cost an arm and a leg.

I guess my point is that the quality of the rope is the least important thing on a drum. If it works, that is all that matters.

What is more important is the quality of the shell and the hide. And even the quality of the rings is pretty important... (though, again, the drum I brought back was rebar, not cold rolled.)

At the end of the day, getting into pissing matches with the kind of guy you describe is not really productive, LOL. Just play your drum and show him how it's done!



Rachel

[shortypalmer]

i agree with rachel about the rope not being the most important thing on a drum as long as it does not break while putting on it, the most common rope around for djembes is usually polyester (or Dacron, one in the same). i use a polyester with a polyester core and a polyester jacket. it is low stretch and i never break it, even using my pulling machine

[McLellan-djembetoula]

Agreed.
I mostly use the .12/ft stuff. I think its 900 lb test. Never had a problem with it and am easily able to make a skin tight enough to make any djembefola happy. I do occasionally use the fancy stuff (I prefer sailing lines over climbing rope- less stretch), and I have to say that there is a point where the rope has TOO LITTLE stretch and can be unforgiving to a skin that stretches and contracts with changes in humidity.
I know a certain 'not tall' person that sells reasonable rope at reasonable prices. Look around. There is no need to use rope that costs over about 20 cents a foot unless you are one of those 'look at my drum' people. I like to look at drums too, but that isn't what they are for.

[Dugafola]

Starting off I am new here (first post) and I don't want to get off on the wrong foot by introducing the following topic. I AM serious in regards to this matter:

Managed to find myself in the company of a guy with a "No cost is too much" attitude. He was bragging about the price he paid to have one of his many djembes reheaded recently. Then he made a comment on the "cheap, lack of quality rope" on one og my African talking drums.

I replied that his drum did in fact sound very good, BUT that he had faiuled to noticed that I had usedtop-quality utility rope made locally and it had a rating of 600 pounds (vs the cheap 60/125 pound rope found at Wal-Mart, etc.).

He still insisted that it wasn't the "Alpine rope" quality as found on his drum. So I asked him a VRY pointed question:

FACT: My African talking drum came with TWISTED RAW HIDE, the SAME material found on native djembes. Why should I pay $US.37/foot for climbing rope when I cane obtain 600 pound braided rayon (or is it nylon?) NON-STRETCH rope locally at $US8.00 and help keep some locals employed?

Translation, WHY has it become the common pratice to use "Alpine rope" (and some drums I have seen do not have real "Alpine rope", they had plaid, speckled braided rope that LOOKS like climbing rope but the idiot that bought the drum didn't know!).

It seems to have come down to an ego trip around here, "I have out spent you". As I said, currently I have home-made talking drums (I have the required trade experience to apply to drum fabrication) and have no problems with my rope. But I want to find out if it is my logic (about the rope quality) that is faulty before building a djembe.

I come in peace, in no way do I mean to offend.

i'd tell him to F$%# off.

i do admire a pretty drum, but sometimes it can be too much...ie the double bowl and leg carved drums.

i agree with McLellan about rope having little to no stretch. a little give is good.

i used to 'accessorize' my drums with different color rope but i've been buying spools of black 5mm for the past 3-4 years now. once you go black...

[michi]

I have used very expensive rope on occasion, such as Liros Vectran Olympic and Liros Hercules, and I'm about to trial some Liros Regatta 2000. These are very expensive, but also very high quality. (I've also used various Australian made Spectra and Vectran ropes, which cost about three times as much as the polyester versions.)

In terms of strength, it doesn't make sense to buy expensive rope because they are all plenty strong enough anyway. But where it can pay off is in the number of times I can re-skin before I need to replace the rope. More expensive rope often has a better quality sheath that is more abrasion resistant and lasts longer, and it is normally the wear on the sheath that limits life time. (The core would last just about forever.) If I have one rope at $1 per meter and another at $2 per meter that lasts twice as long, I actually come out ahead with the more expensive rope because I have to rebuild the drum only half as often.

The other thing I like about high-quality rope is that, often, it is easier to work with. High-performance yachting rope is nice and flexible ("floppy"), tends to not twist around itself as much and retains kinks less than many cheaper polyester ropes, so it is quicker to fit to a drum and I get fewer twists in the verticals during the dry pull.

As far as stretch is concerned, I prefer the very low <2% stretch (creep, actually) of high-performance rope to the higher 5-10% creep of polyester ropes. (Creep is the permanent lengthening of rope under load; stretch is temporary, like a rubber band.) That's mainly because, with new rope with higher creep, it can happen that I run out of room to weave on the first skin because the rope can lengthen by well over a meter, so I have to re-tighten the verticals at some point. (This is an issue only for the first skin with that rope; for the second skin, all the creep is out of the rope, so it's no longer a problem.)

In terms of looks, I find that whether the rope is cheap or expensive, it tends to look pretty much the same (especially if it's black ). You can get all sorts of colors for cheap as well as expensive ropes. Just pick something you like...

Whether the more expensive variants are worth it is a matter of debate. To me, it's worth paying more for rope in order to avoid having to rebuild the drum as often. But then, there are also quite hard-wearing polyester ropes around. My recommendation would be that, if you find a rope you are happy with, stick with it, and that's that. To buy expensive rope to show off with is just plain silly, IMO (and most people couldn't tell the difference anyway).

Finally, I've used a fair bit of Drumskull's polyester rope lately. That rope is really nice. Soft and easy to work with, doesn't twist much, doesn't retain kinks very much, and it's reasonably priced. Also comes in a wide variety of colors, so you can satisfy your aesthetic sensibilities

One recommendation with the Drumskull rope: it comes out a little on the thick side, so the Drumskull 5mm rope is a bit thicker than 5mm rope from other manufacturers (and a bit too chunky for my taste). Their 4.5mm rope is more like other manufacturers' 5mm rope and just about right, IMO.

Cheers,

Michi.

[polarflux]

This is a lacing related question...How does one avoid twisting the rope while lacing up a djembe. It seems I spend a bunch of time getting the twists out of the rope to avoid kinking. In the end, once I start adding tension to the verticals twists become very apparent. Is there some technique to lacing the verticals that avoids twisting unnecessarily? I can see how if I were to progressively feed rope through the verticals (as a worm might do) this could avoid twisting (as opposed to pulling rope through vertical by vertical. This, however, seems like a nightmare to do. Does anybody have any suggestions on this?

[michi]

Use a fid or other prying tool to widen the loops at the top and bottom a bit. The twist is caused by the sheath of the vertical rope rubbing against the sheath of the rope on the loops.

When you pull the vertical rope through, feed it through both the loops it needs to pass through (top and bottom) and then pull straight up or down, in line with the path of the vertical. (Don't pull all the rope through a loop at the top and then through a loop at the bottom. The more you handle the rope, the more it twists.)

With your spare hand, hold the part of the rope that you are pulling through such that the rope doesn't get dragged at an angle across the loop or the knot. Basically, the straighter you pull and the lower the friction while you feed the rope through, the less twist you get.

Any twist that persists, work it towards the open end of the rope so, when you have initially laced up the drum (with the rope still loose), there are no twists in the verticals at all.

When it comes to removing the slack, do the same. Do not pull down on a vertical such that you drag the slack across a knot at the top or bottom. Instead, pull straight up and down to work the slack out. That way, you never drag a vertical over a knot at the top or bottom, minimizing twist. At this stage, while the crown ring is still accessible, you can again work out any twists toward the open end of the rope. If you do it right, you can complete the wet pull with no twists at all.

If you fold the skin over in the Guinea style, you no longer have access to the crown ring, so you cannot pull the slack straight up. Instead, you are forced to drag the slack over the loops at the top during the dry pull. (With a trimmed-off skin, in the Mali style, you do the dry pull the same as the wet pull, pulling the slack straight up and down to avoid twists.)

With a folded-over skin, during the dry pull, as you drag the slack over a loop on the crown ring, try to apply counter-twist with your other hand as you feed the rope up. That'll help to minimize twist.

With a bit of patience, you'll end up with verticals that have no twist at all, or only a minimal amount of twist.

Michi.

[shortypalmer]

i agree with michi about pulling straight through from top to bottom rather then as i say, around the corner. also to keep your twists out, feed it through backwards, what i mean is do not use the end of the rope through the loop, where it comes out the top or bottom loops just get a bite of the rope and double it up and push the loop through thus pulling the rope backwards and any twists will come out the rope through the end of it.

[Waraba]

i'd tell him to F$%# off.