any true benefits of having 42sets of verticle

[michi]

I like the beer bit!

Michi.

[nkolisnyk]

Is this how you describe re-heading drums to non-drummers?

Heh, actually it is. Just a hairy stinky version of knitting.

[drtom]

Consider the other end of the spectrum.

Suppose thrinley was working on a djembe with 4 sets of verticles. I think most of us would want more verticles, not fewer.

The key here is why; the drum will not tune well, if at all. Just as importantly, but perhaps more subtly, the stress on the skin will be isolated rather than evenly distributed; the skin is likely to give.

Conclusion : The more verticles on a djembe, the better it will tune and the longer the life of the skin.

Caveat: At a certain point, the Law of Diminishing Returns will come into play. This is likely to vary from person to person and from case to case.

drtom
(By the way, from sight alone, I think that djembe is worth 42 verts.)

[michi]

Conclusion : The more verticles on a djembe, the better it will tune and the longer the life of the skin.

Caveat: At a certain point, the Law of Diminishing Returns will come into play. This is likely to vary from person to person and from case to case.

I would think that the drum would tune just as well with 30 or 32 verticals.

(By the way, from sight alone, I think that djembe is worth 42 verts.)

It does look good, I admit. But, if the drum had been built with, say, 30 pairs of verticals, I very much doubt that anyone who would have seen it would have said "Nice, but you should have used more verticals."

In the end, it comes down to personal taste. But I don't see any technical advantage here.

Michi.

[drtom]

"I would think that the drum would tune just as well with 30 or 32 verticals."

By that logic, it follows that 28 verts would work just as well, which of course means that 26 verts would be just fine.

Wait! Why bother with 26 when we could just go with 24? While we're at it, why not just go with 4?

Because the more verticles we use on a djembe, the better it will tune and the longer the skin will hold up.

drtom

[drtom]

I realize my last comment might seem a little confrontational. That was not my intent.

Michi says, "In the end, it comes down to personal taste."

I say, "At a certain point, the Law of Diminishing Returns will come into play. This is likely to vary from person to person and from case to case."

I think we're actually in agreement.

drtom

[michi]

I realize my last comment might seem a little confrontational. That was not my intent.

No offence taken!

I think we're actually in agreement.

Mostly, I think.

What I was trying to say is that more isn't necessarily better. I mean, if 42 is better than 32, 52 surely must be better still? But, why stop there, and not make it 62?

Realistically, what limits the number of verticals is the size of the bottom ring. On a Guinea djembe, which usually has a large bottom ring, you can fit more verticals than on a Mali or Burkina one, which typically will have a small-diameter bottom ring. With such a ring and normal cow hitches for the loops, the limit usually is around 30 loops. It's simply not possible to fit more than that, unless I change to a single hitch, which has about half the width. With that I might just squeeze in 42 on a Mali shell (but only just).

My rule of thumb is that the spacing of the knots on the crown ring should be 3-4cm (1.2-1.6"). For a 13" djembe (small size), that works out to 26-34 loops.

If we take a 15" djembe (very large), that works out to 29-39 loops.

So, even for an extremely large drum, I'd say that 42 loops is a little over the top. I don't think there is any technical advantage of having that many verticals, even if the bottom ring can actually accommodate them. The drum will tune equally well with fewer verticals, as long as the spacing doesn't exceed the 4cm limit at the top.

Beyond that spacing, I get uncomfortable. For one, fewer loops means fewer points where the skin is trapped, making skin slip more likely. And, beyond the 4cm spacing, I think the tuning gets too uneven, especially on the second and third row, where each diamond shortens the verticals a lot.

My practice has been to use 28 loops on all but the largest drums, where I use 32. (If I ever come across a 15"-plus monster, I might use 36.) Having built a lot of drums over the past few years, I can confidently say that, with that number of loops, there are no issues with uneven tuning or ring flex between the loops. These drums tune just fine, and they hold their tension just fine.

Now, nothing wrong with 42 verticals if I can physically fit that many and like the look this creates. For aficionados of the Mali weave, with slightly thin (say, 4mm) rope, the resulting weave will be nice and dense, and can look great.

Cheers,

Michi.

[shortypalmer]

I can see why a drum with 42 loops would be a slight advantage over one with less. the skin is only being held by the knots of the loops so you will have more holding power, the question is, is it worth it? i dont think so, a lot more work, more rope. a drum with 30 loops will probably be just fine. i shoot for 26-32 loops on a drum. i put more on a cow head djembe then goat. i have always considered charging more to head a drum with over 26 loops because it is more work, usually dont though.

[drtom]

Michi says,

What I was trying to say is that more isn't necessarily better. I mean, if 42 is better than 32, 52 surely must be better still? But, why stop there, and not make it 62?

The Law of Diminishing Returns is actually in agreement with you, though it's obviously out of place in this forum. I was being lazy when I brought it up.

My observation is that more is better, but at a certain point the human ear can't distinguish the difference anyway, though I do think the the skin's life is extended, and Mr. Palmer makes a good point when he suggests that the risk of slippage is reduced. Of course, there IS a physical limit to how many loops will fit on a loop. Great point!

We all agree that at a certain point the extra rope, time and effort outweigh whatever benefits more verticles may provide, and I find it telling that Mr. Palmer's comfort zone of 26-32 loops matches Michi's AND mine. I recently decided to start charging more for drums with significantly more rope also.

This is a great forum. I'm new here, but I've come to value everyone's participation highly.

drtom