Words, drumming, and language

[bubudi]

So where my children and the adults you mentioned probably did have the same language level (albeit in drumming for the adults), the difference is that imposition of ego which makes some basic language users completely joyful to listen to and some a total irritation.

there is also one other fundamental difference: the adults in question were staying at a particular language level, whereas you were experiencing the joy of seeing your kids progress to ever increasing levels of language.

when i consider music i do not think in terms of one language. in fact, it's the ability of music to cross the borders of cultures and languages that appeals the most to me. i listen to a wide variety of music, not just djembe music (although i did go through a phase where i was listening exclusively to djembe music to immerse myself as much as possible in this type of music), and am sure most of you also listen to a wide variety of music.

to me, the dissatisfaction some people feel with drum circles seems more on these lines: either one person gets too attached to one particular style of music (djembe, or whatever other genre they have invested a lot of time learning), and their ability to communicate in that way far surpasses their ability to communicate in other styles; or alternatively, the participants of the drum circles they attend do not listen to each other. if everyone is talking simultaneously over each other without listening, the communication and enjoyment is limited from the start. some people need to learn how to listen when they play and if one is going to improvise, it's essential that they have first established some sort of repertoire and skill! i wonder just how many drum circle participants actually take lessons in an instrument or even just spend lots of quality time on their own practicing. unless you had extraordinary talent, i don't see how it's possible to harmonise and improvise nicely.

so i think there needs to be some degree of restraint and concerted effort to improve on the part of all participants, and i that applies to any context where music is played. if people's egos get in the way of doing some listening or learning, it will affect the whole group and it's better if there is one person to guide them (incidentally, ego clashes have broken up many a rock band ) that is another benefit of structured drumming such as djembe music: if there is a master drummer present, people will listen to the master, and that eliminates a good deal of the problems that some drum circles have.

[michi]

i wonder just how many drum circle participants actually take lessons in an instrument or even just spend lots of quality time on their own practicing.

Very, very few, in my experience. What seems to happen that a quite a lot of drum circle participants get so much fun out of it precisely because they don't have to make an up-front investment. And quite a few people seem to be actively against any kind of learning, claiming that this somehow would limit their freedom of expression.

And, once people do take lessons, they seem to be less and less inclined to participate in drum circles. As I said earlier, that's probably because, once people have had some training, they realize how limited and simple the language of the circle actually is.

So, I think it goes both ways with drum circles: lack of skill means that the music is mostly so-so and, once people could make better music because of their training, they no longer find the drum circle environment attractive.

if there is a master drummer present, people will listen to the master, and that eliminates a good deal of the problems that some drum circles have.

Yes, that or a good facilitator will make a huge difference. But then, I've watched drum circle participants actively oppose any attempt at facilitation and doing something more structured, as if that were a threat to their existence...

Cheers,

Michi.

[freefeet]

there is also one other fundamental difference: the adults in question were staying at a particular language level, whereas you were experiencing the joy of seeing your kids progress to ever increasing levels of language.

A very good point. Although i do feel this could once again be taken back to ego in a lot of cases. My children weren't egocentric and were happy exploring new ideas, sounds, meanings. The world was new to them and they wanted to explore more. There's doesn't seem to be many adults who are able to jump into a new adventure like a child can.

Or could this be an issue caused by modern education perhaps? Young people are bombarded with lessons and exams for 20 years and look forward to the day when they finish so much that most of them do not want to be taught any further as they've been completely put off of learning.

I think you both make very good points about willingness and/or ability to listen to others. I suppose from what i've written above i could see it in some as egomania, but in others as being so fed up with learning from their youth that they don't want to hear any more.

[freefeet]

Yes, that or a good facilitator will make a huge difference. But then, I've watched drum circle participants actively oppose any attempt at facilitation and doing something more structured, as if that were a threat to their existence...

I don't participate in facilitated drum circles at all. Not because i feel it a threat to my existence but because i love the freedom to explore ideas with others.

I do, however, like structured traditional music as directed by a master drummer and will happily play support rhythms all day long on that kind of thing just so i can listen to and totally enjoy the master drummer doing his/her thing on top.