Study Group

[e2c]

Come to think of it, it lacks the hallmark call of dundunbas

i've been taught a couple 'bas that do not have the Basatibadaba "call" at the beginning.

you will most likely not hear the Basatibadaba call in the village. the dunun rhythms will typically start with clapping, singing, or kenkeni or sangban or any combo of those.

Interesting (though I'm not entirely surprised) - is that call a ballet thing, then?

[michi]

Come to think of it, it lacks the hallmark call of dundunbas

i've been taught a couple 'bas that do not have the Basatibadaba "call" at the beginning.

you will most likely not hear the Basatibadaba call in the village. the dunun rhythms will typically start with clapping, singing, or kenkeni or sangban or any combo of those.

Yes, Mamady mentioned that too, and I've experienced it in Mali on various occasions. The women start to clap and sing a song, and the drummers just fall in with the appropriate rhythm. And, when the women have had enough, they stop and, more often than not, the rhythm just sort of trickles away.

According to Mamady, all calls (including Basatibadaba) are inventions of the ballets. Prior to the ballets, there simply were no calls.

i've been taught a couple 'bas that do not have the Basatibadaba "call" at the beginning.

Interesting. More ballet inventions, I'd say. Mamady taught us a dundunba today. He gave a long speech about dundunbas in general. According to Mamady, all traditional dundunbas use the same two standard accompaniments, all traditional dundunbas use the same off-beat kenkeni, and all dundunbas use the same Basatibadaba call. But, given that the Basatibadaba call is a ballet artifact (and therefore not traditional), I guess it's subject to change without warning

One of the things I learned in Mali was that the music isn't static, and that each generation adds something new. I experienced that first-hand when I heard the same rhythm played by three different generations of drummers. The style and feel was distinctly different each time, even though the rhythms were still clearly recognizable for what they are.

Cheers,

Michi.

[the kid]

So anybody got more suggestions, so for its Sofa or Mani or Yokui. Any one gonna suggest a malian rhythym or any other guinean rhythym.

Don't be shy

[the kid]

and on the dununba call. I'd love to hear what Fams says about it. I recall Bops mentioning the Basatibadaba means 'the head of the gecko'

[bubudi]

i would agree about the calls coming later. however, as michi mentioned, tradition isn't static. the village djembefolas travel to the cities (kankan and conakry) and play for weddings and also catch some of the street dununbas. it's fair to assume they're influenced by some of the ballet and urban adaptations.

it's not like there is only a pre-ballet and a post-ballet style in the tradition. there are many points in between. the fact that there is the name 'basatinbadaba' for the call for dununbas suggests to me that it may be older than most of the other calls added by the ballets. that's a good point to check with famoudou. from my experience and from all the recordings i've heard, basatinbaraba can be used as an entry call, as well as in the middle of the rhythm, but not to stop the rhythm. if it is decided to use a call to stop the rhythm then it will be a different one. there is also a call to end the echauffement which i'm pretty certain predates the ballets.

[e2c]

Yeah - I didn't mean that "anything from the ballet era is somehow not tradition." My thinking on that is more along the lines that it's one of many branches on the same tree, you know?

I think one of the few things that we can be certain of in this life is that change is constant.

[bubudi]

one of the few things that we can be certain of in this life is that change is constant.

spoken like a buddhist the aussie version goes: 'the only 2 certainties in life are death and taxes.'

if there's no other suggestions i'd like to start the poll.

also, to make sure there is a new rhythm every month and not have the nomination/voting drag on indefinitely, i would suggest that towards the end of every month we start a new topic for the following month's rhythm (e.g. rhythm for december 2009. after a couple of days we add a poll which lapses after a set time. the highest vote sets the rhythm. then we add the name of the rhythm to the topic title. how does that sound?

[e2c]

We have the same saying here in the US.

Poll, etc.: Sounds good to me!

[bubudi]

so will it be a rhythm of the month or a rhythm of the 2 months?

if towards the end of the month we can limit nominations to a 2 day period and then have a 2 day poll, then we will be able to start studying/discussing the rhythm on the first of each month. that will mean a full month per rhythm. is that enough time to refer to your notes and recordings, share, discuss and debate?

keeping this rhythm study group thing going would depend on you guys sharing your knowledge and maintaining the interest. if there is flow it will keep its momentum. if it goes slowly (2 months seems a bit slow to me) then it may lose momentum and the interest will fade.

so first up, let's vote on 1 or 2 months per rhythm.

[e2c]

I think that with the holiday season coming up so fast (ours "officially" starts on the 4th Thursday in November - Thanksgiving day), it might be better to keep to a somewhat longer time frame....

I kind of like to tackle projects of this kind during our winter months (January and February especially), because the days are so short and the weather's often nasty enough to keep me at home (snow, ice, etc.). I know that has to be true for Carl as well, since he's in the Deep Freeze! (Maine.)

[James]

I've added a poll that will end on the 11th of November at 9pm (3 days from now) for number of months.

I say 2 because it will take a long time to go to the depth I'm thinking off....

I propose:
1) we kick this off on the 1st of December and run it for 1 or 2 months
2) so we should settle the details of how this will work by Friday the 13th (Boo!).
3) We should have decided on a rhythm by the Friday the 20th
4) We have identified the study material by Friday the 27th...

Feel free to object or add to this...
Is there other things we need to be considering...

What will the material consist of and where will it come from?
How will we distribute it?
Will it be up to everyone to get their hands on it themselves?

Anything else?

I have created a seperate thread to nominate our rhythms as this topic is already 3 paginated pages long (at time of writing) so it'll be easier to count if we have it all in the same place.

Michi and Keanie, can you please nominate your rhythms there again, just so we have it all in the same place. Thanks guys.

[bubudi]

yea, 1 rhythm per month might be a little ambitious over the next few months for some people.

i thought it would be better to have a separate topic each time to nominate the rhythm and then use the same topic to discuss the rhythm (one post per person during nominations would mean it wouldn't take up much space) that means opening up less topics which would make the process more intuitive.

if you have anything to suggest about the way this should work, now is the time to put it forward so we can get that decided first and then get on with nominating the rhythm for december or dec/jan, depending on what the majority want. we can fine tune the details later down the track but let's have the basic system worked out in the next few days.

also, should we nominate a mod to announce the end of nominations / add the polls each time? or just have a different mod each time?

[Carl]

I voted 1 month, but with the following thought.

Can we put in a way to extend the rhythm to the next month if things are going well? I imagine that we could just re nominate it in the nomination process, but is there a better way?

Ugh... Laundry then bed... I'll be in touch

C

[bubudi]

Can we put in a way to extend the rhythm to the next month if things are going well?

good idea. that would give us the best of both worlds - good flow of 1 rhythm per month but the possibility to extend to 2 months if there is still a lot of ground to cover.

in that case we could do either of the following:
keep going for a second month if there were at least 5 requests for that
someone starts a new topic to vote on whether or not we go for a second month

[Dugafola]

if it is decided to use a call to stop the rhythm then it will be a different one. there is also a call to end the echauffement which i'm pretty certain predates the ballets.

the sangban normally ends the chauffe.

2 months is too long IMO.

also, should there be a "sign up" for the study group thread? open for all to read, but special permissions to post? it may help keep discussion focused.