digital audio recorders

[rachelnguyen]

Hi guys,

Just checking in to say that the H2 is definitely growing on me. I think as a newbie to recorders, there was a bit of a learning curve... and reading the screen requires that I pull out my reading glasses... but I have been getting better at positioning the recorder and setting the record levels, etc. I am really liking it. Plus, the thing is really sturdy. I keep it in the pocket of my drum bag and so far, no problems at all. I didn't know there was a silicon skin for it. I might pick one up. But in the mean time, it is doing just fine.

Amazon.com has it for less than $150 at this point. That seems like a great deal on a very solid recorder.

R

[michi]

and reading the screen requires that I pull out my reading glasses...

Join the club

Plus, the thing is really sturdy. I keep it in the pocket of my drum bag and so far, no problems at all.

Be a little careful here--the plastic housing isn't all that strong. If you put the drum down a little carelessly and the recorder is underneath, or you bump the bag into something while walking, you could easily crack the housing (or, worse, crack the LCD display).

I keep mine in a sturdy plastic case for transport, similar to an Otter box. That case was originally designed for Minidisc players, but works equally well for the H2 and cost about $20.

I didn't know there was a silicon skin for it. I might pick one up.

The skin is cheap and good insurance if you happen to drop the recorder.

Amazon.com has it for less than $150 at this point. That seems like a great deal on a very solid recorder.

That'll be without a skin, and with the original 512MB (or 1GB?) card. I'd plan on investing in a 2GB (or better, 4GB) card if you are going to use it in Mali and can't copy files over to a computer. SDHC cards are cheap--you can get 4GB for around $15. Be sure to check the list of cards that are known to work with the H2 and pick one of those. (Not all SDHC cards are compatible with the H2.)

In terms of value for money, the H2 is currently the best thing going. 18 months from now (as always), you'll get double the quality for the same price, or the same quality for half the price. It's always the wrong time to buy electronics...

Cheers,

Michi.

[Djembe-nerd]

Realistically, for drumming field recording, any of the three makes a perfectly fine recorder. If you are on a budget, buy the H2. If you can afford the LS-11, it's the best of the three. If you like the Olympus sturdy construction, slim-line casing, and better battery life and can't afford the LS-11, go for the LS-10...

Fair assesment. LS 10 seems a good buy. manily cos of the battery life, the controls being thumb wheel are a plus to the H2 push button for me and the in built 2 gb as a back up (have 2, 4 Gb cards for daily use. I won't take one 8 gb, cos if it goes bad I am left with nothing except the 2 Gb in built. This happened to me with a CF card for my camera).

"many things "

Sorry for the confusion. I meant many tracks or recordings of people playing.

[bubudi]

yea those thumb wheels as well as the intuitive interface are a real plus on both the olympus models. and you can actually see the display without having to squint. both are quite sturdy too, and come with a good case, which are things you want to take into account if you're travelling with one. contrary to what michi said, both the ls10 and ls11 take sd cards up to 16gb (you may need a firmware upgrade on the ls10 to be able to use a 16gb card), in addition to the inbuilt 2gb. that's a huge amount of music. you can also buy a remote for these, which will eliminate all handling noise. i disagree with michi on the minimal internal mic noise, but recommend you do your own comparison if you're worried about it. or else go with the ls11 if you can afford $300 (approx current price. i recall reading a review that talked about the ls10 having less noise than the h4 (the h2 wasn't mentioned). the noise on the h4 was quite noticeable to me, a bit less on the h2 but i'd say the h2's recording also sounded a bit dull to my ears. if you're going to use external mics, the olympus models are going to give you better results and any noise on the internal mics are not going to be relevant at all.

[michi]

contrary to what michi said, both the ls10 and ls11 take sd cards up to 16gb (you may need a firmware upgrade on the ls10 to be able to use a 16gb card), in addition to the inbuilt 2gb

Yes, I missed that, my apologies.

i disagree with michi on the minimal internal mic noise, but recommend you do your own comparison if you're worried about it.

That's the impression I got from the Wingfield Audio samples. But, as I said, there isn't much between the two. (I had to crank the volume way up to hear it.) And, for drumming, the noise floor is completely irrelevant.

i recall reading a review that talked about the ls10 having less noise than the h4 (the h2 wasn't mentioned).

Yes, the H4 was widely criticized for its noise problems. (The H4 was the first portable recorder made by Zoom, as far as I know.) The H2 improved on that considerably, and the H4n (follow-up model to the H4) improved it further.

if you're going to use external mics, the olympus models are going to give you better results and any noise on the internal mics are not going to be relevant at all.

The Olympus models have better mic amps than the H2 so, with external mics, you'll do better than with the H2 if you use the built-in mic amps. If you use an external mic amp and feed the signal into the line input, I don't think there is any difference in sound at all across the three models (at least not one I could hear).

Overall, as I said earlier, the H2 is the best value for money, the LS-11 is the best of the three, and the LS-10 falls in between. All three are excellent field recorders if you are into drumming.

Cheers,

Michi.

[stereodesign]

For recording rehersals and drumming groups/circles the Zoom H2 is excellent. place it in the centre and record on four channels. Use the encoding software to make a Dolby 5.1 CD and play it back on a DVD surround system, very good indeed!

[Erny]

I´m also using the H2 beeing very satisfied with the results. The H2 is a very good alrounder and once being acquainted with certain characteristics you ´ll probably like it too.

This is an interesting link to german page, where 9 recorders of different kinds were tested:

http://www.audiotranskription.de/vergleichstest-digitaler-rekorder.htm

Just go down on the page to the sound-files and compare the recordings with the ears of your own to make up your decision which is the right recorder for you!

Hope this is usefull for those of you beeing close to a purchase of a recorder!

Greetings from Germany...
...Erny

[Garvin]

I bought the LS-10 after reading and re-reading Michi's posts. Very good info. I found one brand new for $212 bucks and couldn't be happier. Ultimately the technology is such that really you can't go wrong with any of the options listed in this thread. What I realized is that it's important to choose one that has the ability to handle the volumes that we are all dealing with. These aren't violins we are playing afterall.

[michi]

Also check out this thread on the latest Sony recorder. (Both the Olympus and the Sony are outstanding.)

If you read this thread later than August 2011, it might be worth your while to search for more recent threads on portable recorders. This market currently changes very quickly and, a year from now, today's hot recorder may well be an old hat.

It's always the wrong time to buy electronics...

Cheers,

Michi.

[fiene_bee]

Hi Michi,

I have a question for you. You already put some recordings on this site. I really like the quality of them.
I also have Zoom H2, but I notice that my learning curve is very steep.

I put the zoom in the middle and record from both sides (2 channels). I record on WAV. Before, I recorded sometimes in MP3. Got some "ok" results with MP3, but the recordings of one rehearsal of the band are so poor. A pitty.

Somebody told me to record in at least WAV, so no I do so.

Because djembé music is so loud, I activate a compressor. But still the sound is sometimes distorted (not sure about the terminology, English is not my language...).

Also, the recordings are rather quiet afterwards, so I have to amplify the recording with some software.


I'm travelling for six weeks to burkina faso, and I really would like to improve my recording skills, so my field recordings will be ok.... Can you help me a bit out?

Thanks a lot!
grtz, fiene

[Erny]

Hi fiene,

you adressed to michi, but as I do also use the H2 for drum-recording I can give you some recommendations refering basic recorder-adjustments:

1. Decide if which quality you need, wav.- or mp3-file
.wav-file = higher quality and more memory-consumption
. mp3-file = lower quality and much less memory consumption
I usually use .mp3-file with 192 kbps

2. Decide choice of microphones (90°, 120° or 4 micros at the same time)
I usually use the 120°-arrangement, the little red light indicates the active microphones

3. Go to menu AGC/COMP and choose Limit2(concert)
According to my experience this is a good choice, because blasting should be prevented in any case. Blasted recordings can´t be modified later, whereas quiet recordings can easily be boosted.

4. Decide position of mic-gain switch (L/M/H) to prevent blasting
In recording-ready-mode just have a look at the level-meters while music is running. Adjust mic-gain switch in a way that loudest parts are below 0 dB. During this, the software-recording-level should remain on "100". This means, you have to decide between 3 possibilities.

5. Remember:
press record-button: red record-lamp flashing = ready to record (watch level-meters)
press record-button again: red record-lamp on = recording in progress
press record-button again: red record-lamp off = recording switched off

I hope these explanations were helpfull to you.

Wish you a lot of fun in Africa!

...Erny

[EvanP]

I'm ready to take the plunge on a digital recorder. I'd just about decided on the the Zoom H2 since I'm just recording classes for replay, but after reviewing everything posted (especially Michi's great review), I'm thinking about stepping up to the Sony (or Olympus).

Quite a bit of time has elapsed since the Sony PCM-M10 came out, and prices are coming down nicely.

I'd appreciate any guidance you can offer after your experiences with the Sony, Olympus LS-10 and LS-11 (and Zoom H2). The PCM-M10 is going for $200 - $230US on Amazon, the LS-10 is $180, and the LS-11 is $240US. The Zoom H2 is going for $150, so it's easy to head down (up?) the slippery slope of feature creep.

Thanks,
Evan

[michi]

As I said elsewhere, I have first-hand experience with the Zoom and the Sony. The Sony has awesome battery life and is very easy to use, which tips the scales for me. At workshops, I've come across quite a few people with the Olympus recorders, and they all spoke very highly of theirs.

For me personally, I'd spend the extra $50 for the Sony because it's so fool-proof in its operation. From what I hear, the LS-10 is also very easy to use. If you can get the Sony for $200 and the LS-11 for $240, the Sony is the better value of the two. For the LS-10, $180 is an awesome price, and I'm sure you wouldn't be sorry buying that.

In summary: buy the Zoom H2 if you are on a budget. It's a great recorder for the money. Otherwise, go for the LS-10 or the PCM M-10. The LS-11 doesn't do anything better than the Sony (at least not where it would matter for live drum recording), so I don't think it's worth the extra $40.

Cheers,

Michi.

[EvanP]

Received the Sony last Tuesday and played with it a bit throughout the week, but didn't really get a chance to test it out until my group class yesterday. I'm blown away by the quality. I recorded the session on a little Joby tripod on the floor, with the unit horizontal and mics pointed at and about 3' away from the teacher. I had to set the levels manually, because the auto level set seems to be too hot for drums (based on the amount of time the red lights stay on). I love the level indicators with green and red LEDs, but the level adjustment seems very coarse. I erred on the low side, and max play back volume was low from the M-10 and my computer. Any advice on using the compression feature? It seems like it would be helpful for drum recording, particularly if you're not trying to record something for reproduction.

I recorded in the default resolution (LPCM 44.1/16) and the resulting recording was incredibly lifelike through ear buds (I haven't tried it through speakers other than the computer, which doesn't work particularly well for drums). The studio is very bright (hardwood floors, smooth walls), and it picked up the room ambience and space nicely.

I unintentionally performed a drop test onto the hardwood of the studio, and it survived with no mark or indication of damage. It seems pretty well constructed.

I was not particularly impressed, however, with the editing software that came with the recorder. It seems to be tailored for burning CDs rather than editing the sound files.

All in all I'm quite happy. I'll post some samples when I figure out how to do clips.

[michi]

I use the limiter to get that little bit of extra head room.

For editing your clips, I recommend Audacity. It's free and works very well.

Audacity has a number of useful effects. For example, you can play back at different speed without affecting pitch (just as you can with the recorder itself), and it has a "Normalize" effect that allows you to raise the volume of recordings after the fact. The nice thing about this feature is that it does not introduce artifacts into the recording. It raises the volume level while keeping the quality of the recording exactly the same. Of course, it's better to record at a higher level to begin with because, that way, you get a lower noise floor. But normalizing the recording afterwards is still useful, so you don't have to crank up the volume level on your stereo, only to be blasted by the next song that may have been recorded at normal level.

Cheers,

Michi.