Karinya(n) :: Kassa Kassa

[JeremyP]

Been fascinated with this instrument of late and have had a few albums featuring it on high rotation for a while now... It seems there's two key patterns, one for binary rhythms, one for ternary... I think... hence this post.

As examples, I'll use the album N'goni fola - Adama Couloubally (KSK Label)

Track 5: Deni Mya Dont seems to have the emphasis on the first scrape along the Karinya (the first away stoke - I think), and 'feels' to me like a ternary style pattern

Track 10: Jinna Mousso seems to have emphasis on the third (and final) scrape (the 2nd away stroke presumably), and 'feels' more binary to me

Have sung the various djembe passports over the top, listened hard to the song, n'goni and feel of any other instruments (should there be any), and am yet to come to a solid conclusion on this one. I'm hoping there's other equally fascinated but obviously more knowledgeable bods here that can elucidate...

Of course, I also freely admit I may have thought myself into a corner with this, am actually just hearing the same thing different ways and may have to go back to the start and re-learn how these patterns actually sit...

Oh, and if you'd like some of the other track examples ping me and I'll dig 'em up - it's just that I was listening to N'goni fola tonight

Thanks in advance!
Jp
(and if you're not sure of the instrument under discussion it's this one:
http://www.drumskulldrums.com/images/pr ... ed/218.jpg with thanks to Drumskull)

[Paul]

Interesting, I regret not getting the low down on the matter when I was learning Kamele ngoni. I haven't got that album from Adama.. But based on Soungalo Coulibalys version of djina muso that seems about right.. Though I feel if I put a binary passport on that it would have to be considerably swung..

Karinya is virtually always with donso as oppose to the kamele ngoni.. Have heard plenty of versions of this song and karinya is not always present, is there any notes on the rhythm with the cd. I wasn't under the impression it was donso repetoire..

Would be interested in any findings you achieve.. I will try and have a listen myself..

[JeremyP]

Didn't have a copy of that track, but bless online music samples!

Yep, that's the binary feel I was talking about, and granted yes it's gotta be a pretty swung passport. Continued to dig thru my music collection to find more examples... not as easy as it seems.

Found another: "Balafon De Rejouissances" by Ensemble Tingaï off the album Djembe And African Drums; Air Mail Music label that'd show the 'binary' feel.

Ah, and just found this album which I received so recently it should have been first! "Dambe Foli 'Bamana Hunters Music' " again of the KSK label is chock full of karinya (an acquired taste I suspect, and thus prob not for everyone, but I certainly dig this kind of stripped back groove).

Hadn't made the connection between karinya and donso n'goni, but makes sense especially given that last album example.

Interesting indeed...

[Afoba]

It seems there's two key patterns, one for binary rhythms, one for ternary... I think... hence this post.

I think there's 3 patterns (I don't remember any variations): binary and Michi's type A and C of the other thread: xx.xx.xx.xx. and x.xx.xx.xx.x

It's very interesting to read your posts. I know karinyas as instruments playing along with djembe and dundun music and sometimes (beginning of a fête or for a denabö=birth) alone (with singing, of course). You guys seem to have other experiences. Is it just discs you're talking about or have you seen it that way in Mali or elsewhere?
Greetings, Daniel

[michi]

I think there's 3 patterns (I don't remember any variations): binary and Michi's type A and C of the other thread: xx.xx.xx.xx. and x.xx.xx.xx.x

Brian's, actually

Michi.

[Afoba]

scusa!

[JeremyP]

ah, interesting addition Daniel, thanks!

So, am I reading right that those patterns are usually the bell line (as well)? And thus you've experience/heard/etc kariyna played more as an impact bell than a 'scraping' bell - for want of a better word?

My experience is basically from music like that listed above, but also from my teacher's (Mady Keita) old Radio Mali tapes which he plays when he's around and making drums... which begs the obvious question of why don't I ask him too? Short answer is he's a bit elusive at the moment and wanted to ask the question while it's itching me - plus always like more than one source for this sort of thing, as it really helps to build a more full picture, and reduce the reliance on just one source/opinion/understanding etc.

And for a nice touch of synchronicity I just came heard another (albeit brief) sample at the very end of the KSK Life is Hard trailer http://youtu.be/6L1wodA4iI4, as re-posted on Fb, I believe by James

Will continue to explore and will certainly be asking Mady when I have the chance (and a couple of hours to unpack his answer!).

J

[Paul]

Here is how I always associate the karinya with donso music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB1E15Nj ... re=related

But here is something else I came across..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOu32llPmpA

Though I havent come across it like this much.. There are definately some instance where they use it in a bell manner, usually just a few strikes before entering the rhythm.

[Afoba]

if once it starts, they'll usually play it during the whole fête.
I've found these two examples:
(look around 1:14) http://youtu.be/NgExM7mogn0
(next to the djembé player with the blue t-shirt: http://youtu.be/LM8zqm9jbyA

of course, these are special situations. Solo coming home with a group of Japanese and organizing a fête with everything and more in it... Still the Karinya use is traditional.

Another very fine example: http://youtu.be/Iytkmzy1Etk
This video gives an idea, why Mamady Keita sometimes shows bell lines that are "not logical", I mean where the bells don't follow the strokes or vice versa: In parts of Guinee (préfecture de Siguiri) no bells are added to the dunduns, but the karinya play STRAIGHT - asked, what bell one should play for some rhythm, the sound of the Karinyas must come back to any drummer of theses regions - and so the bell line "against" the dundun structure.

Greetings, Daniel

[djembefeeling]

But Daniel, are you talking about the same thing here? As far as I know, the Malian Karinya has riffles and scraping it is typical rather than hitting it like a bell, while in Guinea I have never seen those with riffles. The female singers playing them hit the two ends in turn, right?

best, jürgen

[djembefeeling]

... and the typical ternary pattern in those Malian examples is not type A or C, but a strongly inflected or "swung" ternary pulsation of the dyia family, as Rainer Polak showed us in class:
..1 ..2 ..3 ..4 ..
XXX XXX XXX XXX XX

[Afoba]

But Daniel, are you talking about the same thing here? As far as I know, the Malian Karinya has riffles and scraping it is typical rather than hitting it like a bell, while in Guinea I have never seen those with riffles. The female singers playing them hit the two ends in turn, right?

best, jürgen

That's right, Jürgen, I'm talking about the "guinean" Karinya (well, the ones they play in the regions of Upper Guinea that I know).
The players hit the two ends or better: it's a two hands' movement: the one holding the Karinya turns it around all the time , so that the other hand's movement can be a quite small one. It's a bit like hitting your Kensedeni stick with the drum while playing d;-)
! > (> means movement)
left hand ! \ (metal stick, hits both sides in turn, right hand)
! >

the three ! are the karinya

best, D

[Afoba]

again:

............! > (> means movement)
left hand ! \ (metal stick, hits both sides in turn, right hand)
............! >

the three ! are the karinya

best, D

[Paul]

But Daniel, are you talking about the same thing here?

its fantastic that there is a discussion about two different things at the same time..