jeli ngoni

[e2c]

hi guedom - yes, I think we probably *do* mean Ververs (which is spelled "Berbers" in English) when we say Moors, but still... the word is sometimes used in other, more confusing ways. (I also think there might be a difference between British English and American English here - the CD called "Moorish Music from Mauritania" was issued by an English company. The title seems to mean that Mauritanian people are "Moors," which is confusing to me.)

In American English, people from Morocco (born in Morocco, or legal citizens of Morocco) are called "Moroccans." (Just like people from Spain are called "Spanish.")

I would *love* to visit Granada someday!

[bubudi]

since the south of spain is only separated from morocco by the strait of gibraltar, many moors (moros in spanish) came to spain before the inquisition via morocco. i think this is why the association of moors with morocco is so common in europe. although the name morocco does have the word 'moro' in it, historians say that the name came from 'marrakesh', the former almoravid capital, which was called 'morroch' in medieval latin. btw, the meaning of 'marrakesh' ('mur akush' in the berber language) is 'land of god'. speaking of almoravids, they played a significant role in the history of west africa and waged the first islamic jihads in the region.

the difference between moors and berbers are that berbers are a distinct ethnic group. the moors are mixed in origin, with berber making up a significant part of the mix. however, the appearance of moors varies from black skin to light skin and mixed facial characteristics. genetic testing has proven moors to have quite a high variance in genetic origin. whether the moors are an ethnic group - if you ask a moor in mauritania, the answer will be yes. they are very proud of being moors. i would liken this to the krio (creole) population in freetown (sierra leone). they very proudly identify as krios but their genetic and cultural heritage is rich, since they mostly descend from freed slaves from the west indies, and includes mande, sherbro, igbo, yoruba, arabic, portuguese, jamaican and english. there are creoles in many other countries, of course, including former portuguese colonies in africa and much of the americas.

back to the tidinit... you will notice the similarity in playing style with the tehardent of the tuaregs who are themselves of berber origin.

[e2c]

bubudi, I hate to be so nitpicky, but am wondering if you could cite some sources here? I would really appreciate it, and maybe others would as well... it kind of looks like you're (maybe) using Wikipedia, and (IMO) there are problems with some of the articles there on N. African music and culture. (Not that I'm a s.p.e.c.i.a.l.i.s.t* on this stuff - I'm not! - but I've been reading about this stuff for quite a few years now...)

Re. the Gnawa, their religious/healing ceremonies are animist and involve possession by various entities (spirits). Some Gnawa probably belong to Sufi brotherhoods, but the Gnawa religious practices have little to do with Sufism. I think Philip Schuyler's articles on Gnawa music and culture are a good place to start, especially because he writes well (not in academic-speak).

This article, published on the Afropop Worldwide site, is a good source of info. on them:

http://www.afropop.org/multi/feature/ID ... of+Morocco

Also see http://www.ibiblio.org/gnawastories/ (this has music, text, photos and video)
also http://www.dargnawa.org/ and http://www.gnawa.net/gnawa.htm

The Berber peoples don't like generally being called "Berber"... some use the word "Amazigh" to describe themselves as an overall group. afaik, in Algeria many of them identify themselves by as Khablye. I haven't checked the Afropop site for articles (yet), but if I'm remembering right, there's some good stuff there - check the 1st Dwight Reynolds article that I linked to below for some info. on them as well as early history (pre-Arab conquest) of N. Africa.

There's also this article, by Mitch Ritter: http://www.dirtynelson.com/linen/96/berber.html (he's been covering Berber and Arabic North African music for a heck of a long time now... )

And then there's http://www.agraw.com/ (to start)

Edited to add: Dwight Reynolds on "The Arabization of North Africa" (http://www.afropop.org/multi/interview/ ... rth+Africa ) and "Al-Andalus 2: North Africa and Beyond" (http://www.afropop.org/multi/interview/ ... and+Beyond )

* I kept trying to type the word s.p.e.c.i.a.l.i.s.t above (without periods) and that seemed to generate something in the board software that thought the word was/is spam - got little "[spam removed]" text instead. Very strange!

[e2c]

There's also an interview with Eve Troutt Powell on "African Slaves in Islamic Lands" that's worth checking out:
http://www.afropop.org/multi/interview/ ... amic+Lands

I keep finding references to Phil Schuyler's articles, but it looks like they're not actually available online - dang!

There *is* what looks like a good article on the Gnawa and "N. African slavery and slave culture" here (it's a PDF): http://repository.tufs.ac.jp/bitstream/ ... 064003.pdf

[bubudi]

i have been interested in the gnawa brotherhood since before the internet became everyone's primary source of information, so my sources aren't wikipedia. ditto on the berbers. let's discuss ethnology and history of the maghreb elsewhere. this thread has gone way off topic. thanks for your links though, i'll check them out in due course.

[e2c]

Ditto, in terms of my own interest, bubudi. I had a chance to talk at some length with Phil Schuyler (about 10-12 years ago) for a writing project that I was working on, though the Gnawa weren't the primary focus...

Also, as far as I know, "Gnawa" actually has multiple meanings in Moroccan usage - see some of the links I posted for that.

I think we both have major interests in a lot of things that predate the availability of articles (etc.) on the internet, but hey - there are some great sources out there! No reason not to call attention to them, IMO, anyway... And really, there's such an explosion of information from (and about) cultures that have been marginalized, like the Amazigh (or whatever other names they prefer to use), it seems a shame not to mention some of them.

I also think - as you mentioned above - that there are many complex topics that have been pulled into the discussion... none of them can be adequately covered on a message board. (I think, anyway.) And I do appreciate what you're saying regarding cultural mixing. (Very much so, in fact.)

And I suppose these posts are off-topic, but I don't see how they're problematic - real-life conversations tend to go off on tangents at times, right?

* Edited to add: there are quite a few books and articles published in the 80s and 90s that I'd like to link to, but the texts aren't yet available via the internet. I suppose that will change, given time...

[bubudi]

recordings featuring ngoni:


daouda dembele

self titled [2007, yaala yaala]
el hadji sekou oumar vol 1 [k7]
el hadji sekou oumar vol 2 [k7]


moriba koita

sorotoumou [1997, cobalt]


makan tounkara

mali - ngoni [2001, cinq planetes]


bassekou kouyate

segou blue [2007, out here]

[Carl]

I'm a big fan of Segu Blue as I mentioned upthread, I've also heard great things about Sorotoumou (Moriba Koita) and it is next on my list of CDs when I get back to buying non-djembe cds.

The Hadji Sekou Oumar cds look very interesting... any info on them? website?

Thanks for the info.

C

[bubudi]

The Hadji Sekou Oumar cds look very interesting... any info on them? website?

those are cassettes... old but great content for ngoni lovers. nowhere near the sound quality of segou blue.

[Carl]

Where can I find them? (yes, I could do a search, but I'm at work... and lazy...)


C

[RasT]

Greetings One and All. I am in the process of purchasing a 6 string jeli ngoni saving my pennies should have before x mas. I am totally new to string instruments. I am very excited about getting a ngoni and want all the information I can get before I start to try to play. What fingers are used? Is it very similar to a 5 string banjo? What are some of the tuning possibilities with six strings. Are they any book or videos that would help? Any information will be appreciated. Thanks

[tekrtu]

Hi,

I received few days ago baragnouma's 4 stringed djeli n'goni and I was wondering if anyone who is more familiar with 4-stringed n'goni could give me some advices how to come familiar with the instrument. I am totally beginner with string-instruments and somehow I feel n'goni isn't propably the best instrument for starting to learn totally unfamiliar field. Anyway, I am full of passion for learning it and that's why I propably have to quit working

Does learning matrials for guitars or for 4-stringed banjo give any help. I know djeli n'goni is different than guitars and playing technic differs a bit.

[ubba]

I think Karamo Susso can teach this instrument, he is a kora player and lives just north of San Francisco, Ca. I have heard him play and there was a guy playing ngoni, fantastic music, djembe's, ngoni, bugarabu's, dun's and singing. http://www.myspace.com/karamosusso

[rachelnguyen]

I think my 13 year old is coming to Mali with me in January... and wants to check out ngoni. I am thinking that if he likes it, we will bring one back with us.

[djinedini]

@ubba: i think i am the ngoni player you saw. i play in karamo's band, and i believe you saw the show at 19 broadway in fairfax on september 1st. i am accepting ngoni students if you know anyone who is interested.
@tekrtu and rast: if geography permits, i would be happy to give lessons to either one of you. there are no instructional materials available for this instrument that i know of. i don't play banjo, so i can't say for sure, but even though they are similar, it is a different tuning and different fingering. for example, banjo is tuned to open g, ngoni is traditionally tuned in a combination of 4ths and 2nds, a bit more like a guitar. feel free to contact me if you're interested.