6/8 versus 12/8

[James]

Geeks!

[michi]

Geeks!

Hah! Note this remark is from the same man who recently posted this

Michi.

[djembefeeling]

If you check the top of the both pictures, you get the feel, what bkidd explained. In the western musical notation the emphasis can only fall on the first of the group.

thanks, komadich, that was really helpful for understanding the matter. In dancing waltz, I always regarded four of your measures as one (at least cycle), so I got confused about the emphasis point here.

However, I still wonder about this remark:

But this one can only be 12/8:

s.ts.bs.ts.b

for this is a simple repetition of 2x6, isn't it?

Great, maybe now I'll take up the charge to say 3/8 for ternary rhythms as that would be the base factor and everything is simply some multiple of this. Easy!

even there its not impossible to see 6/8 as the base factor. Look at the kenkeni of Mamady Keitas Komodenu, and Billy Konaté teaches the pa-tipa accompaniement in Konkoba.

But perhaps its less confusing to speak of ternary and binary rhythms...

[michi]

But perhaps its less confusing to speak of ternary and binary rhythms...

Another disciple is seeing the light

Michi.

[bkidd]

Djembefeeling wrote:
even there its not impossible to see 6/8 as the base factor. Look at the kenkeni of Mamady Keitas Komodenu, and Billy Konaté teaches the pa-tipa accompaniement in Konkoba.

Sure one could. I think it's a matter of convenience and what makes most sense overall. In your example of Komodenu, Mamady Keita teaches 5 parts (2 accompaniments and three dununs). Each of these have their own repeating pattern that goes for:

dj1 - 3 beats (9/8 makes most sense)
dj2 - 1 beat (3/8 makes most sense)
sangban - 3 beats (9/8 makes most sense)
kenkeni - 2 beats (6/8 makes most sense)
dununba - 6 beats (18/8 makes most sense)

The option I've seen people go with is 9/8, which makes everything fit just fine except for the kenkeni, which will come back around after two cycles of it's pattern. Another option would be to notate this as 18/8, which creates a longer bar, but one wouldn't be breaking any of the cycles in mid pattern. It's an imperfect classification system where choices have to be made based on how to "best" represent the feeling of the music. I personally enjoy thinking about music this way in that I find it fascinating and helpful for learning and teaching.

But perhaps its less confusing to speak of ternary and binary rhythms...

I use these terms fairly regularly, especially when talking with musicians who have not been classically trained in the western tradition. It's simple and captures the basic difference in two categories of general feeling.

So I've heard of this in classical music when talking about the overall structure of a piece, i.e. the so-called form of the piece. The first time I heard about the binary / ternary classification for rhythm was from Tober Schorr who did the notation for Fara Tolno's rhythm reference project. Out of curiosity, does anyone know the origin story for these terms?

Thanks,
-Brian