Thinking outside the box

[James]

I don't agree that this would work. Weights for speed.

None the less it's an interesting idea, and some good outside the box thinking. Have you tried any crazy stuff in your pursuit of improved playing?

I am reminding of famous Kora player Denbo Konte wanting a chicken in exchange for him doing some magic and making me learn Kora faster.

Alas things didn't work out with Denbo...

[the kid]

I would say having a good fitness level would be a start. Going jogging swimming or to the gym will prob be very helpful too. Then again if you drum every day, practice a bit of dance, fix drums and carry around dunduns you can get a good nuff level of fitness with out going outside the box.

[e2c]

I think that could set anyone up for an injury, due to the position of the wrists when playing. (Don't quote me, though - am not exactly a physiotherapist. )

But it looks like it would be painful - and it would certainly make symptoms of carpal tunnel + similar conditions much, much worse!

[Djembe-nerd]

It will not be good. The wrist are quite delicate as I am learning now.

I tried tight wrist bands (the ad said provide good support to wrist fro heavy working) but actually they restrict the muscles/tendons movement when the wrist move at the time of playing the djembe.

I would say this from my experience. Bulid it up gradually, at regular intervals, and slowly increases the volume, duration and speed. Sudden load on the wrists/fingers can do a load of damage.

[e2c]

Sudden load on the wrists/fingers can do a load of damage.

Absolutely. (Something I learned the hard way - have discussed it in other threads on injuries, playing technique, etc.)

[michi]

Going to a gym and working out is good for me and makes a difference to my playing. The more muscle bulk I build up, the more relaxed I play and the longer I can play without fatigue. More muscle means that each cubic centimeter of muscle has less work to do, so I can play longer before getting tired.

Cheers,

Michi.

[bubudi]

i agree with all the posters so far. i will also say that i know some quite accomplished djembe players who have used the weights to build up speed and endurance. i will add that these people already had years of playing, honing their technique, etc, so they are less likely to injure themselves. they were also already quite fit and had great upper body strength. the idea is that you get used to using more power for the same result, so when you play without the weights, it is a lot easier to play fast, or to play for longer periods. if you try this weight training then i think you'll probably find that you end up finding ways to play more efficiently, which might take you longer to do if you were not using the weights.

i have personally never tried strapping weights to my lower arms/wrists when playing, but i would not recommend doing this until you have been playing for quite some time and have developed good technique, otherwise you are going to be playing with less than desirable technique with added force, which is a recipe for serious injury. in addition i would support what michi is saying and suggest developing some good general upper body and core strength before trying the weights during training. if you do go this route, don't do it for long periods of time. if you feel you are getting tired give the weights a break. start with 0.5kg, and gradually increase the amount of weights over several weeks. that way you are not putting yourself in a position of sudden strain which will most surely lead to injury.

many athletes have used weights during training in this way to get into condition. i see boxers/kickboxers do it all the time (with light dumbells - between 0.5 - 4kg, depending on level of strength and technique). but they do it for a few short bursts (few minutes at a time with a short rest in between), not for a whole session!

[e2c]

Lifting light dumbbells for very short periods of time - and using good form - is completely different to strapping weights on your wrists, though!

I'll be honest, I think this wrist cuff weight thing is one of the worst ideas I've seen in a long time. Might as well do that for typing on a computer keyboard and see how long it takes to injure yourself. (in other words, don't!!!)

Edited to add: in learning to play rhythm bones, i've been working from lightweight wood bones to progressively heavier and denser instruments - natural bone bones, heavier woods (like cocobolo), even small bones made from roofing slate. I'm having to go very slow and limit practice/playing time with the heavier stuff in order to build up strength and stamina. My wrists *really* did not like ox shin bones, let alone slate, at 1st, but now I'm able to play for longer and longer periods of time. (Still, I suspect I'll never be able to pick this up in quite the same way as a large-boned man might, but it's worth the extra sweat, imo.)

[michi]

I'll be honest, I think this wrist cuff weight thing is one of the worst ideas I've seen in a long time. Might as well do that for typing on a computer keyboard and see how long it takes to injure yourself. (in other words, don't!!!)

I'm skeptical about this one too. I haven't tried it myself though. But putting weights on my wrists and then trying to play, particularly at high speed, strikes me as a recipe for collecting strains and the like.

I think you are better off spending some time at a gym doing upper-body weight training, preferably with the help of a qualified instructor. And remember that high weight isn't necessarily key to developing more muscle bulk. You can achieve the same thing by using lower weight and increasing the number of repetitions. The important thing is to exercise to the point of failure, that is, where your muscles can't do another repetition no matter how hard you try. That's what is most responsible for triggering muscle growth. You can encounter failure after six reps with high weight, or after twelve reps with lower weight. I prefer the latter because the risk of injury is much lower that way.

Cheers,

Michi.

[e2c]

I'll be even more honest and say that i think this wrist-cuff thing is outrightly stupid and asking for injuries - especially for people who are over 30. (About the age at which repetitive stress injuries start showing up big-time, per the PTs I know.)

My own experience with wrist and hand injuries and subsequent recovery periods, physical therapy etc. is pretty typical of lots of musicians. I can't imagine that any PT in his/her right mind would ever recommend this kind of "training."

[e2c]

One more thing: are you gents sure that it's about muscle bulk, or are you over-fixating on upper body strength training? I'd think the key is stamina rather than bulgy biceps.

(not j/k; a lot of guys fall into that trap, I think... and I don't have discernably more muscle bulk compared to when I started playing - otoh, women can bulk up, but men tend to bulk up much more, no?)

[michi]

One more thing: are you gents sure that it's about muscle bulk, or are you over-fixating on upper body strength training? I'd think the key is stamina rather than bulgy biceps.

(not j/k; a lot of guys fall into that trap, I think... and I don't have discernably more muscle bulk compared to when I started playing - otoh, women can bulk up, but men tend to bulk up much more, no?)

Partly, the stamina comes from bulk: for a given workload, a larger volume of muscle means that each cubic centimeter of muscle does less work and therefore doesn't fatigue as quickly. But there are other factors too, such as aerobic fitness: the more efficient the body is at delivering oxygenated blood to the muscles, the longer they can work without lactic acid build-up causing fatigue. So, bulk isn't the only thing, but it does help.

And yes, men bulk up more easily than women. Has to do with hormone levels, mostly. Both women and men bulk up more when they take anabolic steroids (which mimic the action of testosterone).

Cheers,

Michi.

[e2c]

Aerobic fitness is, imo, the point.

Some of the best male players I know look like cross-country runners - lean and lanky. And pretty fit.

Anabolic steroids: yikes!!!!

[Dugafola]

some friends of mine who've studied in the ivory coast said a lot of the drummers play with weights over there.

[e2c]

Look at the wrist and hand bones -



Then the muscles, tendons and ligaments -



The wrist is a complex joint and there are some very important nerves running through it (ulnar, for example). If you look at the cross section in the 2nd pic above, i think you can see how putting a lot of stress/weight on the area around the ulnar nerve could cause compression (which I've got, in my left hand, starting on my palm a bit under my ring finger and running through the wrist to the elbow and...)

there are so many things that can go wrong with a complex structure - with the bones alone!

We're only given one pair of hands and wrists in this life. Far better to take care of them than abuse them in the kind of "training" James mentions in the opening post. Otherwise, you risk not being able to play at all - or at best, having to constantly work with injuries - 20, 30, even 50 years down the road.

I know it's hard to imagine this kind of injury and the pain that comes with it - until it happens to you, that is. (Learning the hard way.)

Additional info. from a sports medicine practice: http://www.handsport.us/pted/wrist.htm