Rhythm for wooing woman or expression of love

[leekahheng]

Are there are rhythms for the above subject?

[leekahheng]

Beside Yakadi Macru, are there any?

[Djembe-nerd]

I don't remeber correctly, but something close. The context Mamady gave once about Yankadi-Macru was something like this :

Girl and a boy meet in a party/Bara festival, and boy tries to woo the girl (thats when Yankadi is played) and then the lady approves of the boy and lest her in her house to stay in the night (Yankadi turns into Macru).

Someone else may have a better re-collection of this, it was in the May 2010 Mini-Guinea in SD.

[bkidd]

Hi Leekahheng,

Djaa is supposedly similar to Yankadi/Marku in that it is a dance of seduction.

from Mamady's book with Uschi Billmeier:

In earlier times, djaa was played without instruments. Instead it was sung and clapped by the young girls. Later the rhythm developed into a dance of seduction that is now played at the festivals for young people. The boys and girls form two semi-circles. one boy starts the dance by performing a short solo in the center. He then selects a young girl by placing the scarf around her neck. She jumps into the center and performs a short solo. Once finished, she selects a young boy and this continues for many hours. Djaa is also played on the evening before a wedding. The bride assembles all her friends one last time for a djaa-laban -- "the last dance of childhood".

nYerebi is a song about love

from Famoudou's book with Thomas Ott:

This is a song about a man and a woman who are in love but cannot marry for social reasons. One day the woman marries another man from elsewhere. When she leaves the village, her former loves sings this song dispairingly. Translates to "my dearest".

Best,
-Brian

[michi]

Someone else may have a better re-collection of this, it was in the May 2010 Mini-Guinea in SD.

You can find a recording of Mamady's little speech here

Michi.

[Dugafola]

lekule has the story of a drummer paying hommage to his wife who was a great dancer.

[bkidd]

It's a great rhythm too!

[Afoba]

well, love is a quite western concept, I don't even know a word for it in maninka. The closest would be "landaya" (maninka for: confidence) and "n y(e) I fe" (maninka for: I want you)
I think that none of all the people on this forum has seen anything like the scenes described in this thread on his or her own or on video, not true (if you have, guys, please let me know!!!)? So probably most of it is just legends - stories that the big masters (especially Mamady Keita) have told their pupils in a way that makes it possible for the latters to combine it with their own love conceptions dating from the late 18th and 19th century (french, german and russian literature).

I have heard that the so called "kèdya" (men dya) was a fête for both women and men in the Kouroussa region before (gone today), and of course, where ever they met, they can get some ideas. But Nerd: Can you imagine the musicians going on playing for just 2 people and follow them to the guy's hut (while playing)? I can't.
Remember that they are not married and that everything concerning love/sex is done as secretly as possible in Westafrica.
The "n'yarabi" thing (song) is quite possible. But it's a song about leaving each other (well she "leaves" him, never mind, if she wants or not). It's hard to say, if a girl cries because of leaving her (favourite) boyfriend or because of leaving her family (and friends, if she moves to another village, part of the town, country...). It's mostly more the family, I'ld say.

It might be easier to find some love songs/rhythms further south in the christian regions of West Africa - they had time and more sense to invent some traditional love songs/rhythms since about 1900. d;-)

Sorry for saying "no" and "probably not" so often!
Greets to everyone of you, Daniel

[Djembe-nerd]

But Nerd: Can you imagine the musicians going on playing for just 2 people and follow them to the guy's hut (while playing)? I can't.

I can, Haven't you seen any Bollywood movies

Back to the point, I am taking my information from the people I come across while enjoying my passion for djembe, but the fact remains that djembe is not my life and neither my profession.

So, maybe the people giving info should be more responsible in passing info, or maybe thats the way they understand or interpret their culture, whatever the case I don't care, I am learning their music the way they are teaching it. There can be different interpretations of it, but I will know the one I come across.

No offense, I respect your knowledge and dedication for the culture, and I hope I have been able to answer your question, why I can imagine it ( Also it does happen in bollywood moveis )

[michi]

So, maybe the people giving info should be more responsible in passing info, or maybe thats the way they understand or interpret their culture, whatever the case I don't care, I am learning their music the way they are teaching it. There can be different interpretations of it, but I will know the one I come across.

Unfortunately, there are a few teachers out there (excellent musicians and teachers too!) who, on occasion, have been caught out telling bullshit about a rhythm and the cultural background. I'm afraid there is nothing one can do, other than to file the information away and to compare it what one hears from other teachers and other sources. Eventually, some sort of consensus will emerge, and the bullshit falls out in the process.

Also keep in mind that, for quite a lot of rhythms, there is no one true story. The same rhythm, played in different regions, may well have different cultural associations, and the story attached to the rhythm may vary in some minor or even major detail. In that case, all the different stories are actually correct, and no teacher is telling bullshit.

The problem, at least in part, is the western mindset that so much encourages getting the one true definitive and black-and-white version of everything when, in reality, there are mostly shades of grey.

Also, the western view of these rhythms, spanning all of Mandingue and beyond, is really quite inappropriate in a traditional sense. Traditionally, a djembefola would rarely hear a rhythm from more than a few tens of kilometres away. By suddenly taking a birds-eye view, a lot of inconsistencies seem to become apparent when, in reality, they are not inconsistencies, but simply regional variations.

Cheers,

Michi.

[bkidd]

Afoba wrote:
well, love is a quite western concept, I don't even know a word for it in maninka. The closest would be "landaya" (maninka for: confidence) and "n y(e) I fe" (maninka for: I want you)

Love is by no means a "western" concept. Every religion and culture that I know of at least has the concept if not the direct word. I'm surprised that word doesn't exist in Maninka. What about "jaraboo"?

For the record, I was at the workshop that Nerd and Michi refer to in the above posts. My take on this tale was that Mamady was telling a story to make a point about the differences between Yankadi and Makru. It wasn't supposed to be a literal translation of what actually happens, but a humorous tale about the spirit of the rhythms. Mamady was using the name of people in the class as characters in the story to help make it more fun for participants.

Best,
-Brian

[michi]

My take on this tale was that Mamady was telling a story to make a point about the differences between Yankadi and Makru. It wasn't supposed to be a literal translation of what actually happens, but a humorous tale about the spirit of the rhythms.

Just to be clear: I wasn't trying to imply that Mamady was telling nonsense.

Well, actually, it was nonsense, but Mamady made it perfectly clear that he was putting on a bit of a show and that this wasn't the real Yankadi/Makru story (which he had told us about before that)

Cheers,

Michi.

[bkidd]

I know you weren't implying that he was telling nonsense. I was mostly responding to Afoba and Nerd. Mamady likes to put on a show and that story was a prime example.

Best,
-Brian

[michi]

I know you weren't implying that he was telling nonsense.

I didn't think you were Just figured I better make it clear that I wasn't talking about Mamady after earlier slagging off about some teachers teaching bullshit

I was mostly responding to Afoba and Nerd. Mamady likes to put on a show and that story was a prime example.

Yeah, and it was a good show too!

Michi.

[Afoba]

Hi everybody,
Nerd, I didn't see any offense in your message. It's a very clear and logical one. Just remember that we all are the people passing on and creating informations about djembé music and it's culture (so we have our role, we're not just describing roles).

Brian and Michi, let's read again:

bkidd wrote:My take on this tale was that Mamady was telling a story to make a point about the differences between Yankadi and Makru. It wasn't supposed to be a literal translation of what actually happens, but a humorous tale about the spirit of the rhythms.

Just to be clear: I wasn't trying to imply that Mamady was telling nonsense.
Well, actually, it was nonsense, but Mamady made it perfectly clear that he was putting on a bit of a show and that this wasn't the real Yankadi/Makru story (which he had told us about before that)

Love is by no means a "western" concept. Every religion and culture that I know of at least has the concept if not the direct word. I'm surprised that word doesn't exist in Maninka. What about "jaraboo"?
For the record, I was at the workshop that Nerd and Michi refer to in the above posts. My take on this tale was that Mamady was telling a story to make a point about the differences between Yankadi and Makru. It wasn't supposed to be a literal translation of what actually happens, but a humorous tale about the spirit of the rhythms. Mamady was using the name of people in the class as characters in the story to help make it more fun for participants.
Best,
-Brian

I think I mentioned exactly this when saying:

stories that the big masters (especially Mamady Keita) have told their pupils in a way that makes it possible for the latters to combine it with their own love conceptions

Brian, what have you been told about the word "jaraboo"? For me it's the same as what you write "nyerebi" before (n meaning "my"), I would write (n')dyarabi. jaraboo could be a mandingo variant... What do you know about it?
I've never heard about "dyarabiya" which in theory could describe the "fact of having a dear(est)/ or of being part of a couple" (maybe it exists and I just haven't heard it yet...).
But you can hear quite often the words "Kè (bede) ko / muso (bede) ko" = "looking for (a) (good) man/woman" in the sense of looking for someone good for life OR for the night.

Having the concept without the direct word probably means they have learnt the concept through colonization, don't you think so?

I will have a look in some books and maybe ask some people and would be very interested in what others can find concerning "love" and (to have something comparable in subject and word building) "friendship"!

Have a nice day all of you!
Daniel