i am new

[alec000]

Hi I am new to Djembe drumming. I just bought this drum today
http://www.africandrumstore.com/African-Pro-Large-Djembe-Drum-12-p/ps1225-sw121.htm

Hopefully I can learn alot from you guys.

[sfdjembeman]

Hello,

I hope you enjoy your djembe and welcome to the world of djembe drumming. The djembe will hopefully serve you well as a beginner, but unfortunately it is not a 'pro djembe' and the company you bought from does not know much about djembes or African drumming - don't worry, many of us went through similar experiences and they are here, the founders of the forums and the moderators and us the humble participants to help and learn from each other, to educte and inform each other in an open an honest way.

It is a djembe from Ghana - djembe drumming is not part of the traditions of Ghana and it is advised not to buy a djembe from Ghana to study classic djembe drumming - it will be okay in a drum circle. If you want to study Ghanaian drumming their Kpanlogo may be okay, I'd still ask and do my research before buying.

Next time you buy a djembe, choose one from Guinea, Mali, Ivory Coast, Burkina Faso, Senegal or Gambia - and watch out for quality, not all drums from Guinea, Mali, Ivory Coast etc. are good drums, some people will still sell you cr*p.

Buy from a reputable seller, someone who really respects the traditions and studies djembe - there are many good sellers - they don't always come up in Google. Perhaps 'Djembefola' website should provide links to sellers who have good djembes especially for the sake of beginners like you - Nate of Ontreedrums who posts on the list seems to be a good guy, has a lot of integrity, serious and respectful of the music and culture and he has very nice drums and I know of five or six other sellers who would be good - not to mention myself But seriously a link on this site, discussed openly by buyers and sellers, who can be regulated, checked and their selling history examined - no rotten apples in this bag - if someone screwed up they lose and are out.

Perhaps I/we can think about this, like a certification for honest sellers of great drums who know more than ordering a container of drums from Ghana and paying someone to build a fancy website that always come up on google search. The BBB of djembe and African music and drum stores

WWADJ World Wide Association Of Djembe Sellers or AADJ American Association Of Djembe Sellers I am serious though - let's get rid of the rotten apples, we mainly know who they are and make this industry a pride to it's community. for the fairness, honesty and integrity of the dealings and treatment of customers --- let's take it to another level.

Anyway, Eric I don't mean to discourage you - make the best of it - but it should be a lesson and had to be said for your sake and the sake of other newbies - buyer beware.

Pull it up a bit and tune it. Those drums are never sold tuned - they'll tell you it's tuned but they don't usually know or care to tune them. It doesn't have to be super tight if you don't like it - but I am pretty sure it is not tuned at all .. and the goatskins from Ghana they use are always too thin.

And BTW don't put linseed oil on the goatskin as they suggest ....

Arnold

[the kid]

yo to all slagging off the indonisian drums and gana drum put a sock in it. even those of you who like to slate the remo drums, take it easy

as far as i can see hard wood doesn't grow very quickly

i think thats right

i also think that the worldwide djembe community is growing all the time

so if all these new players buy african hard wood drumms i think that these forests of west africa will be wiped out for good

i train in gambia and and have lived with a drum carver there who makes drumms from mahogony and dimba. IN the last 2 years he hasen't been able to find any mahogony in the bush so it's obviously on the decline

another point is don't be so arrogant as to putdown thess drums so easily.
and be humble
people around the world are banging pots and pans and dust bins and whatever to make music, they are poor. so if you have a lenke djembe (you are rich)from guinea or mali be happy and realise it is a big blessing to have access to this powerful musical instrument, it's an ancient communication device. after all and not all had access to it over the years but now we have access so be happy

i recon it's a sacred art which we are all lucky and privileged to be part of

as for this guy whos wishing GOD BLESS AFRICA


i aggree but i'd like to extend it to the whole worlds peoples

GOD BLESS EVERYBODY

can we stop being small minded and segregated

And to the guy who's saying it's unethical to promote 'African Music' if your white or whatever
sorry what he actually said was the griots are there to promote the music

any body who is advertising that they teach, sell or play djembe are in fact promoting this instrument and this west African culture

so sf your a promoter, a big one at that and a hypocrite
so i'm not down with that

you want to promote your buisness

there are others on the net trying to promote African Culture and Music and i say to you well done. If your travelling there and have respect for the culture and are recording music learning rhythyms which you are passing on to others then you doing noble work.

It is very well extablished in west africa and due to the interest and obviously the quality of the music and the richness of culture it is surviving and growing.

but still a lot knowledge leaves this plane when a master dies so any body trying to protect this knowledge by learning it recording it or whatever is doing important work

any ways we are all part of a global collective of drummers influenced by the art of west africa.
lets be united.
let our power and knowledge grow.

there is obviously a huge lesson to learn from these people who didn't develop rapidly like europeans, asians and americans, russians, chinese. these African people have music and art and song and dance as an integral center of their culture.

this promotes wholeness and communuication, peace, respect and happiness

ultimatly Djembe means Unity,

so think about the deeper issues and respect others

warm djembe love to all and a volley of flaming flams, BraHHHHHHH

[James]

I've played a few ghanain djembe's that aren't too bad. They are the most comon djembe I've come across here. There have the benefit of being light and capable of creating a good notes.

Come of the adrinka carvings on them are also very beautiful, though nothing to do with Mande as far as I know

Your idea for a certification is interesting sfdjembeman. In the future there may be some sort of endorsement of certain sellers from this site and you can be sure that we will only endorse top products

[sfdjembeman]

Hello KEANIEirishdjembe,

Thanks for your comments, unfortunately I am not going to put a sock in it, so if you don't like my posts you simply do not need to read them. If the moderators think they are inappropriate I am sure they will delete them. You seem to be offended as much by my attitude and where I can coming from as by the content of my posts. I say 'God Bless Africa' - and I'll keep on saying it - you can bless who you want, I really don't care. I was waiting for the likes of you to come out of the woodwork - welcome! You are not the first Remo/Indonesian/Meinl/Toca etc. etc. djembe seller/player/dealer to be upset with me.

To advertise and sell a djembe copy from Ghana as a 'pro djembe' is - if I give them the benefit of the doubt, ignorant and at the worst criminal. Many people went through the stage of buying a djembe from Ghana and then realizing it was not what they needed when they became serious about djembe and had to spend more money to get a decent djembe.

Buying a real djembe, not only supports the 'people of the djembe' - but buying a real, pro quality djembe, supports real craftsmen and artisans - who are being pushed out because of the manufacture of cheap, low quality drums being sold in the west as 'pro drums'. Most carvers in Africa are paid per drum, so they crank them out as fast as possible - the carvers who make my pro drums are paid by the hour - so they'll make the best drum they can and take pride in the artistry as they've done for hundreds of years.

If you like copies of djembes made in Indonesia, or Remo or PVC djembes you can debate that as much as you want - fact is they all sound like cr*p and if you don't know that, your time in Gambia did not help much.

At least don't mislead people with 'it's all good' nonsense. Is a cheap guitar from China the same quality as a Gibson Les Paul?? Do you think djembe is less of a musical instrument and that any old drum will do?? Not much respect there.

Deforestation is a problem all over the world and in African in particular and yes djembe manufacturing consumes trees. Perhaps we should stop manufacturers cranking out cheap drums and save the trees for well made drums. There are also well made djembes from Guinea made from Dunun wood, Melina or Mango that grow faster. If you really want to solve the problem of deforestation work against global warming. I was born in Africa and they were not cutting down trees for drums - but for making charcoal to heat and cook with. And properly the biggest consumers of timber are Chinese logging companies chopping down whole forests to keep up with the booming economy and growth in China.

About kids banging on pots and pans, check the video I embedded of kids in Zambia playing on buckets and on Myspace profile too. That's not the point, we in the west have the money - are driving the market and misinformed people like yourself are helping maintain the myth of Indonesian djembe. Now I'll really piss you off and you asked for it ... in my HUMBLE opinion djembe copies are an EXPLOITATION of Africa and the culture --- read it again!!! First they stole the people, then the riches and now the culture. So not only are so called Remo and Indonesian djembes cr*p but they are exploiting the culture - non of the money finds its way back to Africa. That's why I say on my website if you really want to buy a cheap djembe and are considering an Indonesian or Remo or Meinl etc., at least buy one from Ghana, though they are not good djembes -- and buy from companies that know djembe and also sell Mali, Ivory Coast, Guinea djembe etc. they will not tell you it's a 'pro djembe'.

Now you may have forgotten, but this site is called 'Djembefola' and it is doing an excellent job of telling it like it is. This is not a wishy, washy, kumbaya let's feel good about ourselves website - it is about Djembes and the people and culture behind them - this is serious stuff, it's debating someone else's culture and music and our responsibility is to be true to it - we have to be more careful than someone from that culture that we don't appropriate it and WATER IT DOWN. How many djembe masters or serious students have you seen playing a Remo, Meinl, Toca, Indonesian, Ghanaian djembe. Go to Youtube and check out who is playing those copies djembes and the quality of the sound and drumming - bad drumming, playing with the fingers like it's a Dumbek etc. etc.!!!

On this site from what I have seen, djembe is put into its cultural context - it is not just a drum that fell out of the sky, so people can bang on them and feel good. This is a not a 'drum circle' forum and I am not knocking drum circles, a 'djembe' from Ghana would work there. I have played at drum circles in San Francisco where people banged on trash cans, which is fine and is fun, but it has NOTHING to do with djembe .. I don't think you want to do that at a djembe class.

Perhaps you should read the excellent links James has on this site - look under 'Learn To Drum' -> 'Articles' and read some of them in particular 'Mande Drumming' and 'Djembe Rhythm Traditional Mandingue', the petition by Mamady and other master drummers and other articles. I have family in Ghana and very good friend of mine is an Indonesian living in Holland - they are all great people but they are not people of the djembe. Ghana has wonderful percussion - but not djembe. Fact is the best djembes come from the people of the djembe in West Africa

I've had sellers of Ghanaian drums, steal my content for their website, use it on ebay .. I had to fight them on ebay to get them kicked off and I've seen sellers of drums from Ghana claim their drums are from Ivory Coast or Senegal - let's try and serve the culture and 'promote' it , not demote it.

I know there are a lot of bad sellers on the web, but there are some who are reputable and sell fine drums. I already mentioned Nate and OneTreeDrums and there are more, that's why I suggest a section linking to the 'good sellers' so newbies are not misled. If someone sells djembes from Ghana, don't call them pro djembes - they are not, it's misleading and dishonest and disrespectful to the culture.

And lastly your comment is very unfortunate:

"there is obviously a huge lesson to learn from these people who didn't develop rapidly like europeans, asians and americans, russians, chinese. these African people have music and art and song and dance as an integral center of their culture."

Be careful my friend, and tread carefully, your comment is arrogant and borderline racist!!!! A society should be evaluated on the culture and history, not its technology - Germany was at the height of so called European culture and progress and look what it gave Europe at that time - two world wars, mass murder and genocide. I suggest you read some books on Africa - a good one is 'The Hero With An African Face' by Clyde. W. Ford and for history read about the Empires of Mali, Ghana, Great Zimbabwe, Ethiopia etc. etc. hopefully it will dispel part of your ignorance. Read Yoruban cosmology and also Sundiata Keita and The Epic Of Mali and The Lion King. You can try Basil Davidson who has a series of books on African history you can get from your local library and there are a lot more great books as well. And for explanations as to why TECHNOLOGY (not culture) developed quicker in other places read 'Guns, Germs and Steel' by Jared Diamond.

If you have the attention span check out Chicago Djembe Project http://www.chidjembe.com/ (on Youtube as well) and the writings of Dr. Lilian Friedberg - in particular 'Drumming For Dollars' - http://www.chidjembe.com/drumdollars.html

"The Caucasian crime is not its interest in African art forms; it is the refusal to see the connection between the Drums and the people who created them. Accepting and understanding this connection is one prerequisite to integrating the tradition of the Drum into our lives. It is the price our ancestors have placed on the Drum-a price only we can pay."

"... all too often, drum students expect overnight returns, and after only 4 weeks in Africa and a year or two of qualified instruction, elevate themselves to the level of "instructors" and begin offering their own seminars. Consider the time and money it takes to become a professor, a doctor, an attorney or a concert pianist. Why do we presume indigenous art forms require less? Is it because we have traditionally been taught to assume they are less sophisticated, less "scientific", less structured and systematic? I think it is. And I think it reflects the degree to which we still cling to our own notions of cultural superiority, even as we struggle to develop appreciation and respect for indigenous cultures. The bottom line is investing resources in qualified instruction from people whom we have been taught to consider culturally inferior without expecting to supplant the teachers and begin offering instruction before we have even begun to approach "mastery" of the traditions. We must see ourselves as students, not as teachers, consumers, merchants and "masters" of these traditions."

From Chicago Drum Project website article by Dr. Lilian Freidberg
http://www.chidjembe.com

Peace,
Arnold

[the kid]

yo man i play djembe for a living, i,m a student and happy player
i,ve brought back 17 drums from gambia in 2 years, sold 3 to friends and use all rest for playing and teaching. i payed the carver well and sat with him or trained next to him while they were made
So i aint a dealer of any kind
i don,t love remo, or any of the rest of these drums shaped like a goblet, manufactured around the world,
i respect djembe drum and play a mahogony gambian drum or 12 year old guinean lenke one, yes they sound right

but many own remos and they don,t really need to be told that there crap or worse supporting exploitation. or ghanian drums, there not so bad. i would say there as good as ones used hundreds of years ago by djembe folas. Were pro djembes always so good? some of the members of djembefola may play a remo, so they still a djembe fola or are they???
i don,t know whats the real definition of a djembe player, is a fola one who is an expert or any one on the road,

i,ve a technical question for you

is it possible for a remo player to be called a djembe fola

A djembe fola is one who gives voice to the djembe, acording to some, so maybe it,s not possible,

but what does djembe mean??

is it a drum, is it a plane, is it a communication device

some say it means unity,

maybe one who gives voice to this unity is the real djembe fola


any ways, thats as profound as i can get at the moment,
i,ll get back to you again, and i,ll check those books you recomended, cheers,
and on...
i think that west african culture is well, more advanced in there social structure arts, music etc, it,s massive. the peoples i meet are cool, interesting, good communitators. the children are content, funky dancers and funny dudes and the most rascal of hecklors..¨"toubab"

really there far out there, no problems till the europeans arrived, like ireland before the colonisation

obviously all the dominant superpowers today are seriously lackin this culture. if we all played drums instead of building up armies..

sf you suprise me, you actually have some good points; sorry for mailing it into the main forum as well. it was your punishment for been a big mouth. me joking, i recon your a good guy too with a good sense of humour. i didn,t mean to. i,m not sure how the structure here work, still your mails were in there too, your getting lots of advertising in. i read your mail next thing i knew i was in your web site and going what the§
i,d still like a djembe shoot out with ya any ways, me on remo and you with a jina, hee haw.. later

sorry to any body for waisting any ones time on public forum or otherwise, chau

it should all be bout djembe and music art and culture but there is a thing called buisness and another called politics and there woven into everything these days, so thats life, sorry,
enjoy your drum whether it,s a star or a dull moon
wood or dare i say plastic
jah bless

[sfdjembeman]

Peace my brother - we all have our buttons that can be pushed - you have yours and I have mine ... I am sure you are a sincere djembe player and a fine person, truly.

I really don't want to offend you or anyone who plays whatever they play - I certainly have strong views and opinions and sometimes they get me into trouble but I still hold onto them and will continue to voice them.

If people find it a problem or offensive that I have links to my website and myspace profile, especially the moderators and founders - PM or email me and I'll remove the signature and edit my previous posts to remove them - it will still not change my opinions.

Just as an FYI I have been doing the business for a few years and still need a real job to pay the bills. If I factor in the time and energy I put in this business I am losing money. If it was all about making money, I'd sell low end cheap drums that I'd import by the container load from Indonesia or sell Meinl, Toca or Remo - it's a lot easier and much less of a headache. This is a passion and a way of life as it is to most people on the forum.

Nkosi Sikeleli Africa - God Bless Africa - was a hymn written originally in 1897 and is the national anthem of Zambia and Tanzania. It was the anthem of Mandela's ANC (African National Congress) and is now also the South African national anthem.

Zambia, where I grew up was released from British colonial rule in 1964 and became an independent country, ruled by the black majority. I was 10 years old on independence day in 1964 at the stadium to celebrate independence, we sat in the VIP box in Lusaka, not far from Dr. Kenneth Kaunda, the first black president of independent Zambia. This was because of my dad's support of what was previously the Zambian national movement UNIP (United National Independence Party). It was banned and considered illegal by the British who ruled what was before independence, Northern Rhodesia. I still remember the raids and questionings of my parents by the British police and secret service, because of their support of UNIP and independence. So ... Nkosi Sikeleli Africa has special meaning for me, as it has to so, so many people in and outside of Africa it is not just a 'slogan'.

And lastly about two hours ago we just had an earthquake of 5.6 here in the San Francisco Bay south bay area -- which is a reminder of the fragility of life and how dear it is -- next one could be the 'big one' that does us all in over here. I'll try my best to tone down my postings and not p*ss of the Remo/Toca crowd.

Lets all live in peace and enjoy the gifts of Africa and the djembe.

Arnold

[James]

Moderation will happen if necessary...

I'm not going to get involved in peoples "conversations" unless they are abusive, hateful, disrepectful etc.

People can edit their own comments or stand by what they've said but their words are their own unless they cross the line.

Signiture links are ok.

Every one of them pulls your PR rating on googleup, so the more posts you make the higher you'll appear on google in theory. Don't abuse it!

We ask, if you like have space, inclination, time etc, that you give us one link back. You are definitely not obliged though eh! :8

Keywords in the link text are important too, so our prefernce is for something like this:

<a>West African djembe drumming and dance</a>

[rachelnguyen]

To get back to the topic at hand:

Welcome Alec!

I was not in a position to spend a lot on my first drum, mostly because I wanted to make sure that I really wanted to play. So I bought a $100US Toca in my local drum store. It is seviceable. It doesn't ring as badly as my friend's Remo, LOL.

What I found, though, was that I am mad for djembe, so pretty soon an Indonesian drum with a big fat Pakistani goat skin wasn't going to cut it anymore. It just didn't sound right once I heard the real thing. So I have recently upgraded.

However, I don't regret that Toca at all. It tuned up pretty well and I have it on hand as a loaner for when friends come by. And it was cheap enough that I don't feel like it was a waste. In fact, I am glad I didn't buy something more expensive and then STILL want a Malian one later.

My biggest advice to you at this point is to find yourself a great teacher. I lucked into finding a djembefola from Mali. And PLAY! Play all the time. Preferably with other people.

And don't be afraid to stink. You will! But it is part of the deal. I think humility goes a long way towards opening yourself up to be teachable.

Peace, Alec.

[sfdjembeman]

I added Djembefola to the links section of my website a couple of days ago, the text was 'Djembefola - Djembe Forum' with a link -- I just changed it now to Djembefola - West African Djembe Drumming and Dance.