Mali vs. Guinea Sunu

[komadich]

Hello,

Can somebody tell the difference between the Mali and the Guinea Sunu besides the usual dunun setup?

Thanks!

[michi]

The Malians have a way to swing the accompaniment for Sunu that I haven't come across when Guineans play it.

Here is a sound sample of Mady Keita playing Sunu, from his Album "Traditional Djembe Music From The Bamana & Manding Peoples":

Sunu - Mady Keita.mp3

Mady Keita playing Sunu

(1.19 MiB) Downloaded 446 times

Here is another snippet, from "The Art Of Jenbe Drumming: The Mali Tradition Vol. 2", played by Jeli Madi Kuyate and Madu Jakite:

Sunu-Kuyate.mp3

Jeli Madi Kuyate and Madu Jakite playing Sunu

(1.83 MiB) Downloaded 350 times

I've heard that swing pushed to the extreme on occasion. Here is another example, from "Mali Drums: Young Guns", by Saika Doumbia And Crew:

Sunu-Dumbia Saika.mp3

Saika Dumbia playing Sunu

(1.25 MiB) Downloaded 375 times

I find this type of swing typical for Mali—it is present in many rhythms. In contrast, the Guineans play things much straighter. To me, Guinea is at one end of the spectrum, where things are played fairly straight, and a lot of emphasis in soloing is placed on speed and machine-gun style flashy wara-wara. Mali is at the other end of the spectrum. Much less emphasis on wara-wara (although those guys aren't slow by any means), and the rhythms groove a lot more. (One way to describe it would be to accuse the Malians of smoking a lot more dope )

Burkina Faso and Ivory Coast fall somewhere in between. That's why I like the Ivory Coast style drumming a lot—it seems to pick up on the best of both worlds. In my opinion, an outstanding album of that style is "Daakan", by Baba Touré. Absolutely beautiful...

Cheers,

Michi.

[Dugafola]

baba toure's style on that album is very guinean though except for the kuku and baara...IMO of course.

for other IC djembe cds, check out:
bli bi gore
jc et le sinai d'abijan
adama diarra (born Malienne, but grew up in IC)
thomas guei
CDs by george momboye

[e2c]

baba toure's style on that album is very guinean though except for the kuku and baara...IMO of course.

I think so, too... Am not sure that it's accurate to say that *all* Guinean drumming is X way - although I do understand what you're saying about a lot of Malian djembe playing, michi.

Duga, many thanks for the recs!

[bops]

Sunu is a Malian rhythm (from Kayes). It has evolved somewhat since being adapted to jembe. As with many rhythms, there isn't necessarily one correct way to play it. I'm not familiar with a specifically Guinean version of Sunu. I do know that Mamady Keita included it in his book, but this is a watered-down arrangement IMO.

The 'swung' feel of Sunun that Michi referred to is part of its identity. Playing Sunu with a straight feel would be like taking the funk out of James Brown.

[michi]

baba toure's style on that album is very guinean though except for the kuku and baara...IMO of course.

OK, yes, it's not typical Malian, for sure. But it doesn't strike me as typical Guinean either. There is more swing in the music, and things seem to be just that little bit "softer". At any rate, I think it's a phenomenal album, one of my top favourites.

Cheers,

Michi.

[jeffduyndam]

After a shredding dance class at a dance camp i went to in Northern Cali, we witnessed an argument between a master drummer from Mali and a Senegalese drummer. They were both playing for the dance class where sunu was the rhythm and dance.

The Mali drummer was playing dunduns during class and after the class ended, the Senegalese drummer said that wasn't the real/correct sunu. That wasn't how his family played it etc etc.

After some heated discussion in several languages, with other Africans joining in there was no final agreement as to what was the "real" sunu.

The rhythm for the dance class sounded bad ass funky/good to me. And it didn't sound like a typical generic sunu.

That's the beauty of the rhythms from Africa, they are so deep and rich with many varieties...

[Dugafola]

After a shredding dance class at a dance camp i went to in Northern Cali, we witnessed an argument between a master drummer from Mali and a Senegalese drummer. They were both playing for the dance class where sunu was the rhythm and dance.

The Mali drummer was playing dunduns during class and after the class ended, the Senegalese drummer said that wasn't the real/correct sunu. That wasn't how his family played it etc etc.

After some heated discussion in several languages, with other Africans joining in there was no final agreement as to what was the "real" sunu.

The rhythm for the dance class sounded bad ass funky/good to me. And it didn't sound like a typical generic sunu.

That's the beauty of the rhythms from Africa, they are so deep and rich with many varieties...

Tambacounda Camp? moussa and abdoulaye? i think my wife was there dancing in that class.

if i recall correctly, the "senegalese sunu" sounds a little bit like maraka/demba in terms of dunun accomp from Mali, or yoleli in guinea.

it's all good stuff though!

[Waraba]

Michi--

Are those Sunus all from Mali? Or is one from Guinea? They all sound swung to me.

--Matt

[Dugafola]

Michi--

Are those Sunus all from Mali? Or is one from Guinea? They all sound swung to me.

--Matt

those are all mali sunus.

not sure there's a lot of guineans who've recorded sunu except for mamady and dibo camara.

[michi]

not sure there's a lot of guineans who've recorded sunu except for mamady and dibo camara.

All my recordings of Sunu are Malian, with the exception of Live @ Coleur Café and Nankama (both Mamady's recordings).

I learned Sunu years ago from Mohamed Bangoura. The way he played it, it was dead straight, without swing.

Cheers,

Michi.

[michi]

Come to think of it, there are lots of Malian rhythms that have this typical swing. Sugu is one that comes to mind.

In contrast, I'm hard pressed to think of the Guinean rhythms with this kind of feel. It seems that the Guineans don't like to swing things as much as the Malians. However, as you move closer toward the Mali border, the swing creeps back in, such as with the rhythms from the Wassolon region.

Seems that Mali has some sort gravitational swing center, a bit like a black hole: the closer you get, the more you swing

Cheers,

Michi.

[Waraba]

Thanks

[rachelnguyen]

Hey you swingers,

Since I am from Mali I don't know what Sunu sounds like 'straight'. Can one of you make a couple of clips for a side by side comparison?

It's funny, but in class, I often think in terms of 'getting the swing of a piece' but don't really know what it sounds like straight except when the newer students play it and miss the swing altogether. But I am not sure that is what you all are talking about.

Love,
Rachel

[Dugafola]

Come to think of it, there are lots of Malian rhythms that have this typical swing. Sugu is one that comes to mind.

In contrast, I'm hard pressed to think of the Guinean rhythms with this kind of feel. It seems that the Guineans don't like to swing things as much as the Malians. However, as you move closer toward the Mali border, the swing creeps back in, such as with the rhythms from the Wassolon region.

Seems that Mali has some sort gravitational swing center, a bit like a black hole: the closer you get, the more you swing

Cheers,

Michi.

my thoughts on this...the 3 dunun ensemble tends to make things a little more straighter feeling. when you move towards the mali border around wassolon and beyond, that style isn't prevalent.

you'll have sangban and kenkeni and some djembe or just sangban and djembe. that leaves a lot more room to swing and phrase and bend the feel.

also, a good majority of guinea music involves ternary patterns played offbeat. i can't think of something in ternary offbeat that "swings" like a mali sunun.