How hard do you hit?

[James]

I recently started playing djembe after a long period of no playing. I am trying to get my fitness and strength back again.

I would say that normally my approach would be to play as hard as possible in order to build strength and build up my hands.

It occurs to me that perhaps this isn't a good approach in general.

I mean if I can get cleaner sounds with softer strokes then I would use less energy and would then 'last longer'

My slaps definitely sound higher and my tones lower when I hit it hard, so does definition increase with power? Perhaps I'm mistaking volume...but I don't think so.

When you solo are you hitting as hard as you can? I would say that I'm hitting 80-100% as hard as I can, depending on how loud everyone else is....

Another thought - I wonder does speed come from having the power to hit as hard from less distance from the skin, meaning you can move faster?

What's your approach when playing alone? Any other thoughts?

[Michel]

Having a good technique with very clear tone/claque difference for me is easier when I hit hard. But my challenge is to have a good sound playing low volume. I think that is much more difficult. Try to make a good tone with one finger, that is really something that makes the master imo. I have more respect for djembefola's in their performance when they can create sounds playing low volume than when they only play hard.

[the kid]

I guess it takes time to figure this one out. Initially you need to beat hard to find your sounds but then you need to control the sounds to make music with an ensemble. I've found do any time i play quietly with an african there like, what are doin man, beat it.

[Dugafola]

it also depends on your shell/skin. sometimes you really have to lean into a skin to get the clean sound.

[e2c]

I think speed comes from practice and dexterity, not from how hard you hit... though certainly, keeping your hands closer to the drum allows for more speed and less energy expended on each stroke... and that in turn allows for longer playing time.

My teacher is big on developing stamina and not making unnecessary movements while playing. He can play quite hard if the situation demands it, but his upper body is very still and he more or less lays his hands down on the drumhead rather than seeming to strike with great force.

I've tried to follow his lead - which is very similar to what I've been taught with other kinds of drums.

Also keep in mind that your hand and arm weigh a good deal and that you can create a pretty big sound by simply allowing your arm to relax and letting your hand fall onto the drumhead. (Hard to explain in words, much easier to demonstrate.) Working with that and making the most of it can save you a *lot* of energy.

imo, we're trying to pull the sound from a thin membrane (the skin), not bash it hard. (Though obviously, what Duga's said about some skins is also true.)

With many other types of drums, force isn't nearly as important as finesse and a lighter touch. That seems to transfer well to djembe for me, albeit with certain modifications. (since the playing surface is relatively flat, not vertical, as with frame drums and darbouka; also can differ due to individual skins.)

[Djembe-nerd]

The shell/skin and the tuning specially makes a lot of difference, like sais above by E2C and Duga.

Force = mass X acceleration

So the weight of your hands is an important factor too, small/thin people have to generate more velocity (acceleration) via the forearm and wrist action to compensate for the less mass, people with bigger hands/bigger arms will need less velocity to generate the same.

Then wrist/forearm action becomes important for volume and speed.

Getting yourself heard on top of 3 djembe accompaniments is a hard excercise anytime. Only in organized performances where you have rehersed the volume/settings you can play less harder and be heard. Most of the studio recorded albums are with only 1 accomp or none to let the djembefola show his ability or to describe the essence of the rhythym.

[e2c]

I think relaxation - of arms, hands and the rest of the body - is key.

I have small hands; not sure that I need "more velocity" all that often. It seems to me that playing relaxed and not making any unnecessary movements is most important - though if i video'd myself playing, I might be in for a big surprise!

One thing that I think would be very helpful in teaching djembe and duns: a greater awareness of body mechanics (with some focus on injury prevention). a lot of newbies are so stiff when they play, and that's a fast (and all too easy) way to get hurt. Not good! I do realize that a lot of it has to do with feeling awkward and getting adjusted to many things, but it's not hard at all to just have folks learn a few basic stretches and work a little bit on posture and position of hands. That can make all the difference in the world (at any level, I think).

[Djembe-nerd]

One thing that I think would be very helpful in teaching djembe and duns: a greater awareness of body mechanics (with some focus on injury prevention). a lot of newbies are so stiff when they play, and that's a fast (and all too easy) way to get hurt. Not good! I do realize that a lot of it has to do with feeling awkward and getting adjusted to many things, but it's not hard at all to just have folks learn a few basic stretches and work a little bit on posture and position of hands. That can make all the difference in the world (at any level, I think).

I agree, but thats not what a newbee really understands till about one year into this cycle (if he/she is attanding regularly). I knew I had to play relaxed, but even after being aware I started feeling relaxed when I got comfortable with the music. I don't know if this is a part of the process or I was just a stiff person putting too much pressure on myself.

[michi]

I also find it easier to get cleaner definition at moderate to loud volume than at really low volume.

In terms of playing loud, that really is the same thing as hitting fast. But, to hit fast, you have to move your hands further away from the skin because you need a longer distance to accelerate the hand to that higher speed. In turn, that means that it's harder to play fast phrases correctly. My classical mistake when soloing is trying to play too loud, which forces me to lift my hands higher, which has more than once made mess up fast phrases...

There is also technique. Hitting cleanly also means more volume. And being able to speak clearly can compensate for volume: a beautifully dark and fat tone that isn't so loud sounds better (and louder) than a tone that isn't so clean.

If try to hit with maximum force, my sound isn't as clean, and I tend to tire quickly and hurt my hands.

So, for me, playing loud and clear means playing at no more than 80%. That way, I have good sound, good volume, and good control, and the solo comes out much nicer than when I play the same thing at 100%.

Cheers,

Michi.

[e2c]

One thing that I think would be very helpful in teaching djembe and duns: a greater awareness of body mechanics (with some focus on injury prevention). a lot of newbies are so stiff when they play, and that's a fast (and all too easy) way to get hurt. Not good! I do realize that a lot of it has to do with feeling awkward and getting adjusted to many things, but it's not hard at all to just have folks learn a few basic stretches and work a little bit on posture and position of hands. That can make all the difference in the world (at any level, I think).

I agree, but thats not what a newbee really understands till about one year into this cycle (if he/she is attanding regularly). I knew I had to play relaxed, but even after being aware I started feeling relaxed when I got comfortable with the music. I don't know if this is a part of the process or I was just a stiff person putting too much pressure on myself.

Stretching and a few other things can be taught from the beginning, though - agreed on not wanting to throw all that "play relaxed" stuff at newbies. It takes time to become physically comfortable with any new instrument - at least djembe isn't held in a painful and awkward position, like Western flute!

just wondering: did you study any other instruments before starting with djembe?

[e2c]

In terms of playing loud, that really is the same thing as hitting fast. But, to hit fast, you have to move your hands further away from the skin because you need a longer distance to accelerate the hand to that higher speed.

Not sure if this is the same for everyone, but I don't think this is true - for me, anyway. keeping hands closer to the drumhead is a learned skill; I think it can actually help with speed, not slow things down.

[michi]

In terms of playing loud, that really is the same thing as hitting fast. But, to hit fast, you have to move your hands further away from the skin because you need a longer distance to accelerate the hand to that higher speed.

Not sure if this is the same for everyone, but I don't think this is true - for me, anyway. keeping hands closer to the drumhead is a learned skill; I think it can actually help with speed, not slow things down.

It's the laws of physics: if I want to accelerate my hands to a higher speed, I can either apply the same force over a longer distance, or a larger force over the same distance, or an even larger force over a shorter distance.

So, to strike with higher speed, I either lift my hands higher or, if they stay at the same distance, I have to use more strength.

Having said all that, keeping the hands close to the drum head does help with speed, completely agree. I need less force to reverse all that momentum because the entire thing happens over a shorter distance, meaning that I have to reverse less momentum in my heavier forearms: there is more action from the wrist and the palm, which are lighter than the forearms, so there is less effort required for the same speed.

Really good players get amazing volume even when playing close to the skin. Clean technique has a lot to do with this. But, if you listen to absolute top players, such as Mamady or Bangourake, you'll also notice that really fast rolls they play close to the skin are not as loud as the slaps they can produce when they have more time and can lift their hands further up.

Cheers,

Michi.

[e2c]

Well, there's physics, and then there's body mechanics. Applied anatomy and physiology + physics is a whole different beast than basic "hard science" physics.

Agreed that it's to do with technique - and keeping hands low, playing with relaxed wrists and lower arms, etc. are all learned skills that take time to develop properly.

I also think that getting to play in small-group classes (as opposed to large groups all the time) is very helpful for a number of things - one of them is being able to hear yourself more easily when learning parts and thus not having as much need to overplay in order to hear yourself/oneself.

[michi]

Well, there's physics, and then there's body mechanics. Applied anatomy and physiology + physics is a whole different beast than basic "hard science" physics.

Yes, simple mechanics like this over-simplify what's really going on because there are so many bits of the body moving all at once that it's difficult to isolate just one part. Still, the physics of the situation are inescapable.

At Epizo's camp, someone asked what the secret to playing loud was, and whether you have to hit harder to play loud. My reply was no, not harder, but faster and with clean technique, and staying relaxed. (Oh yes, having a good drum helps too... )

Cheers,

Michi

[e2c]

I'd put "good drum/good bearing edge/good skin" as #1 in the equation, actually... some instruments (and not just drums) will never sound good, no matter how much energy you expend on trying.

If something's not made right - like the inside of the djembe "bowl" or a bad bearing edge - no amount of technique will ever "repair" the instrument