Djembe & dunun rhythm ethnic groups

[James]

I'm trying to make a list of ethnic groups that might be responsible for the origins of drum rhythms, that we're interested in.

So far, I have:

Baga
Baoule
Jula
Malinke
Mandinka
Maraka
Susu
Wolof
Other
Bamana,
Sarakole,
Dogon,
Peulh
Toma
Mane
Temne
Guerze

What do you think? What am I missing?

[michi]

Off the top of my head, Landouma, Kassonkhe, Manian, Maraka, Senufo.

I'm not too sure about the distinction between Malinke and Mandinka. I've found conflicting information on this, with some sources saying they are the same, and others saying they differ. Anyone know for sure?

Michi.

[Paul]

Hi,

Do you mean djembe or adapted to djembe/dunun?

Baule (of zaouli fame) like Agni/Akan are of Ashanti descent having moved in the mid C18 (Been playing Adowa lately, mental stuff and way more akin to zaouli than djembe rhythms).

RE: Malinke, I've been told by the professor of enthnomusicology here that malinke is the peul name for maninka.

Similarly jula/dioula/djula/dyula are variations of the same (as oppose to jola in casamance) which roughly translates as trader (As far as I remember bambara means non-muslim/heathen??).

Again there are also Bobo rhythms, so depends how much you think them and dioula are different ethnic or just dialects.

Temne: is that Djole? if its just an adaption then there could be lots, loads of Ghana rhythms are played abroad on djembe/ then taught / then a youtube vid saying Kpanlogo is a djembe rhythm.

What would be interesting is the spread of rhythms based on the movement of ethnic groups and political circumstances. e.g. we play zaouli because the difficult political situation in Guinea led Mamady to move to to the far more prosperous Cote d'Ivoire in the 80's(?).

Ooops...Can of worms.

[Dugafola]

nalu (sinte)
mandenyi (yamama)

[Daniel Preissler]

hello,
for me the list is already too long... (Wolof, Guerze, Dogon ?)
even, if we just talk about influences it seems too much to me (Fula, Toma, Maraka,... remember, not even all Maninka - the Dyula in Burkina - and sure not all Bambara played djembe).

but some points:
Michi, what do you mean "Manian"? There's a village of that name not far from Kankan and there's the region Maniana (Manian la) somewhere between Kankan and the borders of Mali and IC, I guess. But both are Malinke (=Maninka, right Paul!)
There's a difference between Mandinka and Maninka, even if it's the same word. Mungo Park (1795) saw it as one, but the opinions (and the dialects!) have changed since. In short: Mandinka/Mandingo are the Maninka of Gambia and Senegal and put an "o" the every word's ending d;-) And Maninka kan is seen as closer to Bamana kan and to Dyula kan (we could discuss, if Dyula is an ethnic group) than to Mandinka kan.
Bambara doesn't mean pagen, as far as I know. It's the other way around: The Maraka (meaning traders, just as the word dyula), were Soninke (weren't they) traders in the Bambara heart land. These traders were muslims in a non-muslim region/country (the Bambara were the last to say Allah hu akbar!)

Have a nice time
Daniel

[djembeweaver]

As far as I'm aware 'Susu' isn't an ethnic group but a language that's shared between several ethnic groups from the West of Guinea. So 'Baga' and 'Landauma' are both ethnic groups that share the Susu language.

That's what Samsou's always told me.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will!)

[michi]

Watching the "Landouma Fare" DVD, I get the impression that the Landouma language is distinct and that it is just about lost now. There is a scene where Youssouf asks a guy to say a few words in Landouma (which should be Youssouf's native language, but he doesn't understand it).

We had a previous discussion on this here. I'd appreciate any info anyone might be able to add!

Michi.

[michi]

Michi, what do you mean "Manian"? There's a village of that name not far from Kankan and there's the region Maniana (Manian la) somewhere between Kankan and the borders of Mali and IC, I guess. But both are Malinke (=Maninka, right Paul!)

I've been told that the Manian are the same people as the Konianke. Basically, the people around Odjenne and Beyla

There's a difference between Mandinka and Maninka, even if it's the same word. Mungo Park (1795) saw it as one, but the opinions (and the dialects!) have changed since. In short: Mandinka/Mandingo are the Maninka of Gambia and Senegal and put an "o" the every word's ending d;-) And Maninka kan is seen as closer to Bamana kan and to Dyula kan (we could discuss, if Dyula is an ethnic group) than to Mandinka kan.

Yes, I've heard too that the Mindinka are from the Senegal/Gambia region. But I've also been told that the languages are near enough identical, which would make them the same ethnic group?

Cheers,

Michi.

[Paul]

There's a village of that name not far from Kankan and there's the region Maniana (Manian la) somewhere between Kankan and the borders of Mali and IC, I guess. But both are Malinke (=Maninka, right Paul!)

Ehhhhhh! haven't got that far north yet.

I'd appreciate any info anyone might be able to add!

Have a look here and pm me your email.

http://www.hrelp.org/languages/resources/

Basically, the people around Odjenne and Beyla

Then what about the Kissi? Confusing.

Another thing to consider is the fact that some 'ethnic groups' solidified on the basis of competition for resources after independence, 'united we stand' kinda stuff'. I've read this particularly in relation to Igbo's in Nigeria, basically they absorbed smaller groups.

This is also true of certain groups based on their lineage system e.g. matri or patrilinear. Some groups when they moved to an area sought to consolidate their territory by acquiring slaves (in the African sense) and expanding their population, at one point the Baule changed the nature of their lineage process to allow people claim membership to the group of anyone of their four granparents. As such, they chose the most influential group (Baule) and increased the size and power of the group.

According to Armando Cutolo at the University of Sienna, referring to Cote 'Ivoire 'Local societies were configured according to taxonomies based on the first collections of ethnographic data made by colonial ethnographers' (for instance, Delafosse 1902; Clozel and Villamur 1902).

All for now

[e2c]

Language as a marker can be very misleading... most people who speak English aren't from England; Spanish is even more widespread, yet few people who speak it are from Spain. (Ditto for Portuguese.)

Although I don't exactly trust stats gathered by colonizers, either.

[michi]

Just stumbled across this page, which contains a list of major (and not so major) ethnic groups:

http://www.winne.com/guinea2/bf01.html

I always thought that ethnicity was determined along language borders, not on lineage? I agree that any data collected in recent years is probably tainted, in the sense that, especially since the end of colonialism, there has been a lot more movement of people, so the ethic groupings that were valid in (pre-)colonial times are probably different now.

Michi.

[e2c]

Well, to tie it to spoken language belies that fact that most people in the US are not of English descent, ditto for the millions of people in Central and South America who are Indians, descendants of African slaves and/or some mixture of Native - European - African... (I'm highlighting the southern part of the Western hemisphere mainly because folks down there - and in the Caribbean - are predominantly of mixed heritage. Sadly, here in the US, most Native peoples were wiped out by illnesses and genocidal campaigns carried out against them.)

Everywhere the English, Spanish, French and Portuguese colonized, they took their languages... Just because some folks use English as the lingua franca in their own countries ≠ them being of English descent. (Take India, for example - or Nigeria, Ghana, Liberia and Sierra Leone.)

I think it is kind of reductive to assume that language doesn't spread via conquest - or, in some cases, via religious beliefs. The latter has a lot to do with why Arabic is the 1st language of so many people in North African countries, no?

[Daniel Preissler]

Hi e2c,
As you say

Sadly, here in the US, most Native peoples were wiped out by illnesses and genocidal campaigns carried out against them.

so this is something different and not comparable to the situation in West Africa. In WA we can say, if some one speaks a language - let's call it "apple" - heor she will consider him or herself as a speaker of "apple" and most probably as "an apple" . The question in WA is much more often, if this same speaker considers himself more as an "apple" or more as a "fruit" - and if "apple" is a language or just a dialect of "fruit".
Always funny when we potatoes talk about that stuff d;-)

[Paul]

Sod that... I'm not being a potatoe, don't you know anything of Irish history?