Hello, new member from Australia/Indonesia

[NUMU]

Hello all, have been reading through the forums and thought I would join up.
From the title, I am an Australian living in bali, where I own one of the drum factories here.
From what I can see on the forums, you guys are not really big fans of the indonesian djembes, which I can understand as there are a few cheap and nasty ones here, however I am here to defend the higher quality ones as in my shop they are made for playing, not for tourists.
Feel free to ask any questions about bali/indo djembes and I would be happy to answer any questions as my factory does everything from picking the trees, shaping the shells, skinning, roping basically everything from tree to drum.
Cheers

[michi]

Hi Numu, welcome to the forum!

I just spent some time in Bali and saw some truly nice djembes there. Good proportion, beautiful carving inside and outside, and good craftsman ship for the rings and rope. The one thing that's holding Balinese djembes back in my opinion is the wood: teak is OK, but will never sound like the real thing. If you could come up with a source of high-density tropical hardwood, I think the Africans had better look out: with the right wood, Indonesian djembes could sound every bit as good as the real thing from West Africa, IMO.

Cheers,

Michi.

[James]

Hi Numu, welcome to the community.

Like Michi, I saw some really well made djembes in Thailand about 5 years ago.

Do you play much djembe yourself? I'd be interested in the history of the djembe in Indonesia,as in when it first showed up there and why it became so prominent in the markets.

Do many people actually play djembe there?

[NUMU]

Hi Guys,
thanks for the welcome.

From a couple of the comments, yes the drums these days are getting good, and only gonna get better...
as time goes on i can give you the inside on what companies buy/make their drums in indo... very high profile...
As for the wood, teak is not used, it is mahogany. As these trees become harder to find... Palm trees! I know it is not conventional, however an owner of another factory showed me one he has had for years... Absolutely beautiful, and the sound is fantastic. When the big mahogany trees disappear, be prepared for a new palm tree djembe...
This guy hosts african players when they come to bali... and has a few african drums in his shop. Seriously the difference could only be picked up by forensics...If anything the indo ones sound better.

Yes I do play djembe,also been making them for around 7 years. I seem to get better the more i drink, however that isnt confined to the djembe...
Here in indo drums have been a part of the culture for hundreds of years, not so much djembe but double ended drums and a type of dun dun as well as many variations on the hand drum, so the conversion to making djembes is a natural one. Not like chinese trying to make a copy of everything, here they are just changing what they already knew.
Heaps of people here play they djembe, and are really talented. People here hold workshops, djembe retreats, lessons, etc etc, so apart from what many people hear about "tourist" djembes, it is actually part of the culture here...
Another thing, the carvings (outside) of these drums is absolutely amazing... i dont mean to be rude, but compared to the african ones, the african ones look like they have been done by a 5 year old..
I am not saying indo ones are better, african ones are the original.
But dont forget, chinese invented pasta, but i would go to italy for a good past dish!

[bubudi]

Here in indo drums have been a part of the culture for hundreds of years, not so much djembe but double ended drums and a type of dun dun as well as many variations on the hand drum, so the conversion to making djembes is a natural one. Not like chinese trying to make a copy of everything, here they are just changing what they already knew.

native percussion music of indonesia is great, if you like that sort of thing. there are fundamental differences in the materials available (wood, skins and rope) and also the sound of the drums, from what exists in guinea, mali, etc. i disagree with your choice of words that the indo double sided drum is 'a type of dun dun'. it's a different drum altogether, with a similar idea perhaps, but different in its construction and sound qualities.

Heaps of people here play they djembe, and are really talented. People here hold workshops, djembe retreats, lessons, etc etc, so apart from what many people hear about "tourist" djembes, it is actually part of the culture here...

i agree that many indonesians have a natural sense of rhythm and can often seem to bang out a decent sounding beat on just about anything with no prior training. i guess that's a natural talent.

the djembe, like any instrument, requires serious training. my observations of indonesian drummers are that mostly they have developed their own technique and style. i am not against this in any way, in fact they are making something nice and unique. but that is not the traditional djembe sound. there are plenty of west african djembe players who bring their own technique and style to djembe, but they also learned and continue to respect the traditions, and i prefer their sound.

but i have to add something to your last statement: 'it is actually part of the culture here...'.
as an aussie living in indo, seeing lots of drums being made, sold and played, i guess it looks to you like it's part of the culture. in a way it has become part of the culture, just like mobile phones and other things have. however it will always be a bunch of indonesians banging out drums for export - drums that originated in west africa. they have copied them utilising different raw materials and construction techniques, so they have become an adaptation of the original, but that will never make them part of the traditional indonesian culture.

how many indonesian drummers or carvers have taken the time and money to go to guinea or mali to learn the techniques used on these drums? anyone who can carve can look at an african drum and imitate the shape and some can even do more than a decent job of that. however, without learning from african carvers, they will lack the knowledge of traditional carving techniques that give the djembe its unique sound.

Another thing, the carvings (outside) of these drums is absolutely amazing... i dont mean to be rude, but compared to the african ones, the african ones look like they have been done by a 5 year old..

that's a matter of your opinion and taste. i can attest to the fact that there are some amazing carvers in indonesia. a lot of them are furniture makers (not that i would hold that against them!). some of them can make quite elaborate designs on just about anything with an impressive level of precision. personally, i like my drums a touch more raw and i like the drum to have very minimal outer carvings. i've seen the indo drums with elaborately carved dragons and what not and personally i don't like them. i've also seen the ones where they are copying the traditional west african designs and doing a fantastic job. some of them are really nice but a lot of them are overdone. but this is a matter of exterior aesthetic preference and not important to the sound of the drum itself.

As for the wood, teak is not used, it is mahogany [...]
Seriously the difference could only be picked up by forensics...If anything the indo ones sound better.

actually i have seen teak drums from indo, and they are still being made although mahogony is the usual wood used. mahogany sounds way better than teak but it doesn't have the proper characteristics that a traditional djembe wood has and this translates in the sound.

i have heard thousands of indo djembe imitations. from time to time some of them actually sound good to my ear. but at best i could put it on par (sound-wise) with a ghanaian djembe. i would still rather have a well made djembe from guinea, mali, burkina faso or cote d'ivoire.

another problem with indo drums is that the skins there are typically thin, and they are usually being treated by a heavy liming process to bleach the skins white. these skins give a pingy sound that i personally find irritating.

rope in indo is still not generally of high enough quality, but with the proximity to australia, decent rope is never too far away and some of the higher end carvers are importing high-end rope. still, 99% of the indo drums i have seen are being made with a black rope that gets brittle after a while.

you are a drummer running a business that allows you to sustain a nice lifestyle where you are able to experience warm weather all year around and life is less stressful. you are naturally trying to protect and build this business and justify it, but in my opinion it is fraught with problems: the appropriation of an ancient culture for the sake of making money, the deforestation of indonesia, timor, papua and borneo... we could argue for hours, but at the end of the day, i'll stick to the traditional djembe and dunun from west africa.

Palm trees! I know it is not conventional, however an owner of another factory showed me one he has had for years... Absolutely beautiful, and the sound is fantastic. When the big mahogany trees disappear, be prepared for a new palm tree djembe...

i'm sure that they will become increasingly more common and probably sound better than one would think, but your claims (fantastic sound from a palm tree djembe, indo carvings making west african ones seem like they were done by a 5 year old, etc) make me very sceptical of your business. i try to remain open minded and will therefore not rush to outright refute this particular claim until i have heard a few palm tree drums, but i have heard quite a lot of drums made from various soft woods and they were never a match for the denser hardwoods.

But dont forget, chinese invented pasta, but i would go to italy for a good past dish!

not a sound comparison imo. the raw materials of pasta are wheat and water (or variants thereof), which already existed in italy. the trees are completely different in indo, and the goat and cow skins there are nothing like the ones from guinea/mali/senegal, either.

[Djembe-nerd]

I seem to get better the more i drink,

I like this one, this is cool

On the other hand, I would like to see a good Indo djembe, and if I come across one, I will buy it too. I don;t know of anyone in US who can supply a djembe of that quality that you are mentioning here. I respect the culture from WA and the countries associated with it, but if Indo can provide something that equals them, more power to you, and cheaper options for us, and I personally consider this an extention of the WA culture too.

Not all Toyota/Honda/BMW in US come from Japan/Germany, but they are equally good, how's that comparison Bubs

[bubudi]

nerd thanks for the laugh!

i'm glad you asked that question, though. it's still not a fair comparison, as those car companies you mentioned are still receiving all the revenue from the products they designed, no matter where they are manufactured, and they still have full control of the whole process. not so with the djembe-like drums from indo.

i am also yet to see a hand-carved indo djembe that rivals a good one from mali, guinea, burkina faso or ivory coast, in terms of quality of wood, internal carving, consistent wall thickness (indo drums tend to be too thin-walled), perfect proportions and shape, larger size, beauty of wood grain, quality med-thick skins (by guinea/mali standard) that do not look bleached, high quality rope and rings (also rings that are a perfect fit), proper tuning with the the skin mounted on in an aesthetically pleasing way, and traditional djembe sound with only some small pleasing overtones and a great differentiation of the sounds.

[Dugafola]

as much as i hate to admit it, i agree with the moderator on this one.

fact: you will never see a big african Master djembefola play anything other than a drum made from native hardwoods: lenke, jalla, hare, bele, iroko etc.

[bubudi]

as much as i hate to admit it, i agree with the moderator on this one.

they say hate is a step away from love