unfair trade djembe dealers

[IB1Dance]

Hello,

After doing many hours of searching for a Djembe, for the price I had decided to pay, I'd decided on buying the 13" Pro Africa ‘Mali’ Djembe from http://www.djmmusic.com

listed via this link

http://www.djmmusic.com/ItemMatrix.asp? ... =undefined

And priced at £135

Though I had noted that http://www.djmmusic.com sell allot of products with the brand name 'world rhythm' printed on them.



So I visited their Website http://www.worldrhythm.co.uk I noted the same Pro Africa ‘Mali’ Djembe was pictured their.
I had to supply a user name , tell number, business address etc in order to view their worldrhythms 'Wholesale ' price's . ( How can we trust business that try s to keep it's price's secret from members of the public )

Even taking into account added VAT of 15% & a modest mark-up, the exact same Djembe is considerably cheaper

""Pro Africa ‘Mali’
(mdj025) 65cm x 38cm diameter. 13” head
Unit Price: £71.99 not including VAT = with VAT approx £83 pounds
Please contact us for volume price breaks""

So even if www.djmmusic.com did not buy 'in bulk' and get the Djemde even cheaper with 'volume price breaks' that is still a £52 pounds profit for them.

So what do www.djmmusic.com do to justify their profit mark-up on this Djembe ?.In reality very little! for they are simply a on-line distribution centre that just pass my purchase information onto www.worldrhythm.co.uk & TRY and answer any questions I have about their products listen on their website.

All this 'middle man' profit making just makes me think?

Are the African craftsmen whom make these drums being seriously ripped off .

Of course these company's love to use the advertising words 'Fair trade' but in reality, the majority are just going to be 'Business minded' people whom will make as much profit as they can get away with legally.and that it seems is allot .

I

[thrinley]

those djembe look very much like indonesia djembe to me...

[Djembe-nerd]

those djembe look very much like indonesia djembe to me...

They are Bali/Indonisian ones, look for something authentic from West Africa if you are serious about learning west African music, because you will need to upgrade if you go for a cheaper option now.

There are many people here from UK that can advice you for people who keep good djembes.

[Waraba]

Pay 700$ to Wula or Drumskull, & be happy forever.

[James]

Or spend that money on a ticket to Africa and pay less than a 100.

I think this whole issue is a lot more complicated than we're referring to. There are a lot of difficulties with dealing directly with African craftsmen, and it's a shame we can't buy great djembe's direct from Africa easily.

There are big markups on all products, that come from Africa and other 3rd world countries. The amount that trickles down will vary hugely.

When I was in Conakry, all of the drum makers were buying their rough shells from Fula people who were buying. These people will see even less of the money, let alone the drum builder, or the person (or many people) who works for the drum builder in Conakry.

It's very hard to be sure of quality of a djembe you don't have in front of you and you pay a premium for the name that the expensive drum makers have earnt over time.

Still nothing would beat going to West Africa and buying 1 drum for the rest of your life.

[Paul]

Damn straight.. I've never seen an african djembe fola with these fancy ass carved drums....

[Tom]

There are a lot of difficulties with dealing directly with African craftsmen, and it's a shame we can't buy great djembe's direct from Africa easily.

Hello James,

For several years before I first travelled to Guinea I searched coast to coast in the US for a truly professionally carved djembe. I didn’t find what I was looking for. When I went to Guinea I had hoped to find a master carver who was turning out the meticulously carved shells I had been looking for. In the beginning I contracted with several of the best carvers in Conakry, and although they were talented carvers they could not produce the clean work I had hoped for. In all of the shops in Conakry they carved a djembe from a rough shell in only half a day. I think that even an entire day is way too fast, but they basically just knock them out as fast as they can. The biggest problem I found was that the interiors were never carved out properly. Instead of removing wood from the interior, which is the hardest work, they removed from the exterior, which is much easier. What you end up with is a V-shaped bowl that looks like a bucket, and in my opinion that is bad form (I am currently writing about form and how it has changed over the years in Guinea, and when finished I will post).

It was an incredibly difficult uphill battle for me to finally get control over the carving process, and I lost a lot of money along the way. Anyone who has experienced the djembe business in Conakry will understand why. I suffered mostly frustration in the beginning, and I see many others who experience that same frustration. I remember being in one of the main djembe shops in Guinea when I met a drummer and drum dealer from Montreal named Hans. He was having drums made for him in three different shops and had just come from one of the other shops. His face was red, his forehead beaded with sweat, and his eyes bulging. He was extremely upset and his blood pressure had to be skyrocketing. Once he saw me, a non-African, he poured out his frustrations. Initially he had wanted a few dozen professionally made djembes, but at this point he just wanted at least one professionally made djembe. He was working with the three main producers, all of who had his money, and he said that each one of them was just giving him the run around. Instead of the professionally made djembes he was promised, they were giving him drums with cleverly hidden defects and of wood which had not yet finished drying. He had missed most of the drum and dance camp he had came for in order to deal with the whole mess. Hans is just one example of many I have witnessed. The drum business in Conakry is full of pitfalls and losing money is guaranteed, at least until you really know how the game works. Not to discourage anyone, but just to forewarn. If you do your research before going you can hook up with a builder who won’t do you wrong, and who will build you a good drum. It definitely helps them if you deal directly, but to get a good drum in Conakry these days you can normally expect to pay more than $100. Is that a fair price to the craftsmen? All things considered, probably not, but it’s more than they can get by selling to most of the exporters.

There are big markups on all products, that come from Africa and other 3rd world countries. The amount that trickles down will vary hugely...When I was in Conakry, all of the drum makers were buying their rough shells from Fula people who were buying. These people will see even less of the money, let alone the drum builder, or the person (or many people) who works for the drum builder in Conakry

My opinion of the djembe business in general is that it reeks. Lies, deceit, and exploitation is the name of the game, and that goes for both Guinea and abroad. In Guinea I have caught so much heat from a producer named Mustapha simply because we pay higher wages to the carvers and builders. Mustapha has gone way out of his way to prevent me from doing business in Guinea, and the people around me have even expressed concern for my safety. He tells anyone who will listen that I am ruining the business. My response is: Really? For who? Certainly not for the craftsmen. There is only one other producer/exporter in Guinea (who I personally know) that pays a considerably higher wage than the prevailing one. He is a French guy named David (Da-veed) who has a reputation for very high quality work. I have a lot of respect for David, both for the quality of his work and for that fact that he does pay higher wages. As you said, the amount that trickles down will vary, so the more you know about the supplier in Africa the better you can avoid buying a drum which was built with slave wages. Better to deal with the source and not the middleman.

From Paul

Damn straight.. I've never seen an african djembe fola with these fancy ass carved drums...

That statement can be taken two ways. There is carving of the shell and there is the decorative carving which can be on the shell. I doubt that you would use the term “fancy ass” to describe the carving of the actual shell, so you must mean the decorative carving.

The decorative carving is an art form in itself. Some appreciate it and some do not. You obviously do not, but you should be aware that some people do, and that there are decorative carvers whose entire livelihood, and the livelihood of their families, depend on those decorative carvings that they do. I know this because some of them happen to be friends, and their livelihoods are a concern of mine.

You claim that you have never seen djembe folas with “fancy ass carved drums”, so you must not have seen some of the drums of Mamady Keita, Bolokada Conde’, M’bemba Bangoura, and a long list of others. The truth is that many of the top artists tend to prefer “fancy ass carved drums”, especially artists who perform on stage, so I would recommend that you reconsider your claim.

[Dugafola]

The drum business in Conakry is full of pitfalls and losing money is guaranteed, at least until you really know how the game works. Not to discourage anyone, but just to forewarn. If you do your research before going you can hook up with a builder who won’t do you wrong, and who will build you a good drum. It definitely helps them if you deal directly, but to get a good drum in Conakry these days you can normally expect to pay more than $100. Is that a fair price to the craftsmen? All things considered, probably not, but it’s more than they can get by selling to most of the exporters.

Agreed. granted, i've only done personal business over there...i was lucky enough to get introduced to nice crew of carvers who did, IMHO, very nice clean work. no decorations...just straight up plain jane shells. they gave me good prices compared to the other places i visited.

There is only one other producer/exporter in Guinea (who I personally know) that pays a considerably higher wage than the prevailing one. He is a French guy named David (Da-veed) who has a reputation for very high quality work. I have a lot of respect for David, both for the quality of his work and for that fact that he does pay higher wages. As you said, the amount that trickles down will vary, so the more you know about the supplier in Africa the better you can avoid buying a drum which was built with slave wages. Better to deal with the source and not the middleman.

I met him over there and got to play on some drums from his workhshop. he's very nice indeed.

Damn straight.. I've never seen an african djembe fola with these fancy ass carved drums...

You claim that you have never seen djembe folas with “fancy ass carved drums”, so you must not have seen some of the drums of Mamady Keita, Bolokada Conde’, M’bemba Bangoura, and a long list of others. The truth is that many of the top artists tend to prefer “fancy ass carved drums”, especially artists who perform on stage, so I would recommend that you reconsider your claim.

i agree with both of you guys. a lot of the djembefolas abroad play very nice djembes with decoration and bling bling. but a lot of the 'working' djembefolas play on some pretty beat looking drums. those guys don't care what their drums looks like and are probably just grateful they have something to play.

[Tom]

but a lot of the 'working' djembefolas play on some pretty beat looking drums. those guys don't care what their drums looks like and are probably just grateful they have something to play.

I'd say that nearly all of the djembefolas in Guinea carry beat up drums. Guinea tends to beat up on any material thing. I'd say that a majority of them have drums which don't sound so good either. You're right, they don't care. Different mentality.

[Paul]

Damn straight.. I've never seen an african djembe fola with these fancy ass carved drums...

You claim that you have never seen djembe folas with “fancy ass carved drums”, so you must not have seen some of the drums of Mamady Keita, Bolokada Conde’, M’bemba Bangoura, and a long list of others. The truth is that many of the top artists tend to prefer “fancy ass carved drums”, especially artists who perform on stage, so I would recommend that you reconsider your claim.

Hi Tom,

I really got up your nose there, so I will try to limit my one line random comments in future.... First of all of course I'm referring to external carving. As you are selling online the visual aspect is obviously important and its a beautiful art form in itself... Being from a small island we are rarely graced with with the likes of the masters you have mentioned and as such I am left to make the trek to Africa every second year or so when the funds are available, there I study with some great drummers who have not been 'lucky enough' to make it out of Africa. I agree with Duga the artists I come across are lucky to have a drum.. Last time I was there I witnessed a toubab trying to get his hands on drummers personal drum,,, he got it in the end for maybe $50 more than the normal price because the djembefola just couldn't turn down the cash... It makes me sick to think we can just rock up and take the best because we have the cash.. So yeah I haven't seen djembefolas with a 'fancy ass' drum because some white boy rocked up and bought it...

When I get there I spend a couple of months in one region (lately burkina faso) and over that time I perhaps pick out ten drums to come home with... I know all the people I buy from and I am ussually there making the tea while they are being made... I know all the people I will pass them onto through workshops at home..

I am well aware of the pitfalls of trying to do business in Africa and thats why I don't get involved and as I said the market is small here... Most people who know to play a bit have a drum they bought themselves in Africa or that a good friend picked up for them in Africa and as such I never met anyone who bought a drum over the internet...

Basically I am agreeing with James's comment that you should if possible go to Africa to pick up a drum for yourself as you will have more of a connection with it....

I have seen people like your Friend (I say like because I dont know the story) in that situation or perhaps some French people who drove down in cars with a trunk full of crap looking to do some quick business and pay for their holiday... I think you should expect to build a relationship with a carver over a longer period of time which you obviously have, but pulling up for a month doing a Mamady workshop and going home with 50 good drums, I dont think so.

Anyway no offence intended, im sure your an honourable man and as I said I will lay up on the one liners..

I am writing my thesis on western neo-colonial practices in francophone west Africa so I have a few things to say on that, but another day.

[Djembe-nerd]

Well, not all people can go to Africa and get their drum, even if they want to do it that way, at least for now But its in the plan. Till that time the options left is to buy through the internet and maybe the internet purchasers can play well too, given talent and hard work is not relevent to purchasing location.

On the djembe traders, they are all business people, they have to market their product, and if the quality is good, price is soon forgotten. Satisfied with the product, satisfied with the purchase. They earn something and they make good product avilable in return, part of the deal. How much of this goes to their pocket and how much to the people in Africa, only they know best. Some are more established and can give more, some are struggling and only manage to make ends meet.

I have dealt with most popular sellers in the US. I bought my first drum through internet in the begining, and was a disaster. But not all internet/stores are bad. Since then I have tried 4 stores and all of them have delivered good product (Not perfect as some market themselves). Now I just buy the shell and make my own djembe, and my djembe are at par with their sounds, maybe not so much in the asthetics.

[Dugafola]

Now I just buy the shell and make my own djembe, and my djembe are at par with their sounds, maybe not so much in the asthetics.

that's the best way to do it IMO. even the shells i bought in africa...i brought them home and did it myself with quality rings and rope.

[e2c]

Paul... I know you don't live close to W Africa, but you're a lot closer than most of us are. The kinds of trips you take are, I'm sure, a big investment of time and money for you - and I wish I could do the same. Unfortunately, air fares from this side of the Atlantic can be very prohibitive.

I think very few people have the ability to spend so much time in another country, unless they're traveling for work.

Just sayin'...

[Paul]

Well, not all people can go to Africa and get their drum, even if they want to do it that way, at least for now But its in the plan. Till that time the options left is to buy through the internet and maybe the internet purchasers can play well too, given talent and hard work is not relevent to purchasing location.

To be honest I would rather have an active scene with some masters living in the locality than to go to Africa alot... I know its not like that everywhere in the states, but to be able to take a class once a week with a master would be great... I am just starting bringing over teachers or organising workshops myself.. We have babara bangoura on the weekend, but its hard to fill the workshop even with someone famous unless you open it up to any level.

Also you can be at an advantage in relation to information.. For example the format of mamady's workshops where someone is on hand to translate and there is a good focus on history and culture..

You don't always get that if you make your own way in Africa. Some times the young players who sound great don't know the info or there are language barriers.. Its a quality v quantity thing..
Its not necessarily too easy to get a great drum.. Sometimes the best makers are on contract pretty much and I have gotten a frosty reception from white drum exporters living there for talking to their carver.. It may be fair enough though as perhaps they have set that carver up with tools and a workshop..

Tried to make it over to some of the festivals in Europe this summer but it was going to cost a fortune... By all accounts there are some top notch white drummers in italy, france.... So often Africa is my only option but its getting harder every year to get away.. Im studying now with the hope of going to work in Africa, but thats not to say it will be in a Djembe playing region..

if the quality is good, price is soon forgotten.

True

[Djembe-nerd]

To be honest I would rather have an active scene with some masters living in the locality than to go to Africa alot

Yes, I went to a teacher in the beginning. Now I go to dance classes and sometimes get togther with friends to practice and play. Also attended the Mini Guinea Camp with Mamady, that was very good experience.